Maelstrom Weapon?? possibly use of fast OH?

[hellzfury]

So I was wondering if Maelstrom becomes amazing for burst in pvp would it be benifitial to get a fast OH like 1.5 speed and put Frostband on it for the 50% slowing debuff with WF on your 2.6 MH. so that you can stack up Maelstrom quick and use Flameshock and get an instant 100% crit lavaburst every 8 seconds? I guess I'm wondering b/c of Maelstrom some shaman's will be favoring Flameshock in pvp and therefore we won't have a slowing debuff on the target disregarding earthbind totem.

So what does everyone think??

[Guran]

I'ld love to see you Lava Burst every 6 seconds when it has an 8 second cooldown :P

And even with a fast OH and a relative high amount of crit (35% effective, gogo resilience) it still takes up to 10seconds to get 5 charges on.

[sahria]

well (aside from the issues with swing timers and such) you want to get ur crit to a point where ur refreshing the 9% melee crit buff every 10 seconds with ur guarenteed crit with Lburst (provided ur ele sham isn't a complete dick).

[Alltat]

Remains to be seen, I guess. Frostbrand is PPM though, as far as I know, meaning that if you take Stormstrike into account it will proc more often on a slow weapon. Depending on the amounts of resilience availible in WotLK PvP, Maelstrom might prove useless outside of PvE.

(provided ur ele sham isn't a complete dick).

The two of you might end up doing more damage if you use Flame Shock every cooldown and let him 'steal' every other one for a guaranteed LaB crit.

[Skabrona]

The Elem Shaman's LavB should hit for a lot more than yours. Otherwise, he's an idiot, and not a dick. There should really be 2 flame shocks on the target anyways. The elem shaman's will hit harder due to Storm, Earth and Fire. Leaving you with yours. The only reason for an earthshock would be if you need spell interrupt or if the enhance sham's LavB is on CD. There should be lots of stormstrike charges on the mob regardless. So I don't think it'll be much of an issue of "stealing" each other's flameshocks.

Sorry about the minor derail, I just wanted to offer an Elem Shaman's input into the scenario. I see it as the SS charges going to the elem shammy n boomkin, and the flameshocks should be in rotation with both enhance and elem shaman. With COE and ImpScorch, it would be beneficial to make sure you get your fire dmg in. SS charges would be saved for LBs and Wraths.
My spell rotation would go something like:
LB, Flameshock, LB, LB, LB, LavB, rinse/repeat.

Depending on the mechanic for determining what order the flameshocks are used in, you will want to make sure the elem's shock is on the longest for the ticks (more dps overall). But as I've said before, I don't forsee that being a problem.

[Guran]

I think there will be a major problem (once again) with haste and perfecting your cycles.

Assume 1.2k spellpower & 25% crit:
A Flame Shock with 2 ticks will give ~2.2k dmg
A Lightning Bolt will grant ~2.7k dmg
A Lava Burst crit will do ~4k damage.

A cycle with LaB, LB, LB, LB, LB will do 14.8k dmg every 10 seconds
A cycle with LaB, FS, LB, LB, LB, LB will do 16k dmg every 11.5 seconds
The first one does 1.48k DPS, the second one 1.40k
But ofcourse you will drop Wrath of Air, increasing your spellcasting by 10%

Suddenly your LaB + 4 5 LB cycle does 1.60k DPS, the FS cycle will do 1.626k DPS.
The problem here lies with the fact that LB and FS have similar DPSC so the cycle with the most DPS is the one with the shortest rotation.
And ofc an Enh Sham will want to use Flame Shock. Not just cause he will need to keep it up for the Ele Sham, but also because he will be able to use it himself with Maelstrom Weapon talent. If the Elemental Shaman does significant more DPS with just LaB cycle, the Enh should switch to instant LBs instead, or he will be gimping raid DPS.

[Alltat]

If the Elemental Shaman does significant more DPS with just LaB cycle, the Enh should switch to instant LBs instead, or he will be gimping raid DPS.

Keep in mind that the enhancement shaman will likely have Elemental Devastation. That LaB crit isn't just damage, it's going to proc ten seconds of +9% melee crit, which likely will result in more damage than the difference in damage of one LaB, especially since that crit will help the enhancement shaman build up Maelstrom charges for the next LaB.

[topfer]

here's the thing, enhancement shaman shouldn't be using earth shock at all, the yshould be spamming flame shock when its up and get in sync with an ele sham using lava burst.

what this does is boosts the ele shams dps and mana efficiency A TON, as its 1) a gauranteed crit crit every 6 seconds, as well as leaving stormstrike charges to someone that can do damage with it, be it ele sham or boomkin or poisons whatevs.

my guilds enh shammy is awesome sauce for support, and he'd totally be into it, realizing that I could literally not gear for crit in favor of haste and spell damage as long as he flame shocks every 6 seconds.

this is a huge impact for ele shams.

re: ED for enhance. I think enh as it is sits on a crit overkill and smart ones will use their stormstrikes instead of lava bursting (which an ele sham could and should do)

[Lazyjoe]

here's the thing, enhancement shaman shouldn't be using earth shock at all, the yshould be spamming flame shock when its up and get in sync with an ele sham using lava burst.

Lava burst only proc its 100% crit effect on YOUR flame shock. So an elem won't be able to use an enhance's shock.

Anyway the idea of a frostbranded fast offhand is retarded. Frostbrand is a ppm, so you don't get more dps of it with a fast offhand, only flametongue is averagely good in this case (but it seems the devs want to change it). Second, even if your weapon is faster, you lose the extra attacks from a windfury proc, and get less flurry uptime so you won't stack maelstrom waepons faster.

[Guran]

Lava burst only proc its 100% crit effect on YOUR flame shock. So an elem won't be able to use an enhance's shock.

Anyway the idea of a frostbranded fast offhand is retarded. Frostbrand is a ppm, so you don't get more dps of it with a fast offhand, only flametongue is averagely good in this case (but it seems the devs want to change it). Second, even if your weapon is faster, you lose the extra attacks from a windfury proc, and get less flurry uptime so you won't stack maelstrom waepons faster.

"You hurl molten lava at the target, dealing 888 to 1132 Fire damage. If Flame Shock is on the target, Lava Burst will consume the Flame Shock, causing Lava Burst to critically hit."
Nowhere does it say it has to be YOUR Flame Shock.

And your faster OH logic is flawed. The amount of WF attacks lost is minimal. Hell, with a slow WF/fast FT combo you should see more attacks per minute then dual slow WF. Flurry is also not dependant on weapon swing speed, except for that 1 WF & SS attack every 8-10 seconds. The difference in uptime will be minimal.

[Recom]

dual WF or WF/FT is an endless problem ad in fact it is nearly the same..

In WotLK flametong will up spell damage so maybe WF/FT wil become more effective than dual WF

[Guran]

dual WF or WF/FT is an endless problem ad in fact it is nearly the same..

In WotLK flametong will up spell damage so maybe WF/FT wil become more effective than dual WF

Again, you're mistaken. Flametongue TOTEM will give spellpower (as WoA does now), but Flametongue WEAPON will just do what it has always done.
Only difference is that now you will have str, agi, new WF totem AND spellpower down as enh.
Still has to be seen how the Enh threat is handled.

[Recom]

I got it.
So dual WF will still be the best.

[Utal]

I got it.
So dual WF will still be the best.

It will give the best DPS when Maelstrom weapon is not fully stacked.

[topfer]

dual windfury, because you'll get teh FT buff (as its not weapon enchanting), and use your maelstorm weapon procs to cast chain lightning, not lava burst. let the ele sham in your group soak up the crit lava burst, as they'll have a bonus of 100% crits and their meta gem (doubly effective for 6%). enhancement shaman are going to be BATHING in crit, so ED is going to be...still pointless.

[Recom]

I don't get it..

Flame shock has a 6sec cd and LB have a 8sec cd, so ele sham can use his own flame shock for lavaburst and enh sham can do the same every 8 secs ...

Ele sham use stormstrike much more than today but not flame shock

[Yasuhiko]

Becuase with a high amount of spellcrit excluding the rotation and 9% crit from a 3 point talent are totally worthless. Enhancement Shaman want to be crit saturated, with Flurry, Unleashed Rage and Maelstrom Weapon as well as Windfury.

In all honesty, the point is moot until we can figure out what's really going to be the final values and skills we have usable in our rotation, as well as what classes will be present raiding.

After all, who's to say the Elemental Shaman won't be using their flame shock every 10 seconds, immediately after a lava burst, before going back to a pure LB rotation. Enhancement Shaman will be rotating their flame and earth shocks as needed to keep their own DPS up as well. They aren't simply the Elemental Shaman's bitch.

[sahria]

tbh i hope thy do make it so you can only consume ur flame shock for your lava burst much like immolate and conflag is for warlocks, the bonus's in dps enhancement shamans will gain form this will be extreme with elemntal devastion, basically pumping out a lava burst every cooldown meaning the ele devastion buff is up permanently, i'd be fairly suprised if any sham in raids was rolling with anything under 40% melee crit fully buffed and with ele dev. lets just hope that threat won't be an issue now we lost blessing of salvation lol.

[AngelExodus]

The loss of BoSalvation means nothing. Blizz stated that they are baking all threat into the tanks. This means that DPS will be doing more threat but so will the tanks making the increased threat of DPS moot. And with Blizz implementing their own threat meters that means they should become alot more accurate allowing better players to push the line more without the fear of pulling aggro.

[topfer]

I don't get it..

Flame shock has a 6sec cd and LB have a 8sec cd, so ele sham can use his own flame shock for lavaburst and enh sham can do the same every 8 secs ...

Ele sham use stormstrike much more than today but not flame shock

You don't shock every six seconds when using flame shock. you let it go for a full 12. however if you know you have an ele sham back there using your flame shocks, you'd do it every 8 or so.

the return of an ele sham soaking up an enhance's flame shocks and not having to use flame shock themselves (hi2u mana inefficient) and an enh shock using maelstrom to cast a CL or a LB, is going to be much much better than having an ele sham shock flame, and using lava burst on their own while the enhance sham does it as well.

the enhancer will lose a little dps, and the ele sham will gain a crap ton, as it would vastly increase their mana efficiency (something ele shams have a huge problem with at high haste), and a lava burst crit on an ele sham is going to be worth two to three times as much damage over an enhancers where as they dont lose much from using CL instead of Flame shock other than some crit from ED (which again, enhancers are going to be saturated with crit, we're talkin 50% without much problem). if you need ED for flurry or UR, you ahve bigger problems than rotations.

theres a LOT of synergy to be had between enhance and ele, and good enh shams will let their ele soak up their flame shocks and use MW procs to cast a lightning bolt or a CL.