Rant and Rune comprmise

[procne]

Altering the rune set up alters how these three damage types come into play for each of the 216 possable set ups for the runes.

there are no 216 setups but 28

[Gestalt]

there are no 216 setups but 28

Yep, "position" doesn't matter.

[ullysis]

So far after 5 hours of Deathknighting in beta, leveling blood, the system seems fine. If you have the talent for 'death rune' you may get lucky and your useless frost rune can become a blood/unholy. plague strike without a disease (i.e unholy disease strike.) isn't worth it. Of course this will all change when I level up and find different abilities.

Finally, been hoping someone in beta could actually keep people informed rather than the random complaints made from assumptions. It would be greatly appreciated if you can open up a post of some sort just to keep people informed on the functionality of the DK...if you don't mind that is. Also, apart from the "death rune" which is a 12% chance, I noticed Blood Tap - "Immediately activates a Blood Rune and temporarily converts it into a Death Rune. This rune counts as a Blood, Unholy, or Frost Rune. Lasts 20 sec.1 Blood, Instant, 1 min cooldown".

Is there any option for this sort of transformation in either frost or Unholy, I see none from most sites I've checked but you're in-game, so I was wondering as I'm very inclined to be frost and though i like "empower rune weapon" it would be great to have a "frost Tap" to lend to a little, though very limited customization.

And for the record I do not believe 2/2/2 will ever be changed as every class in this game is locked and controlled. This class "will not" be an exception. This is WoW not AoC we're talking about, they like to control everything in order to maintain balance (from their perspective) so giving us flexibility is like them looking at each other and rolling on the floor laughing...saying "they actually want control, dude that's so funny my head hurts from laughing......control". I'll settle for Frost Tap, Unholy Tap and Blood Tap each w/1 min CD.

I play a warrior (prot) and watched them remove all strength from my gear so I cld not (so I can generate threat by smiling nicely at the bosses), then I watched them load me up w/dodge w/no way to generate rage, I watched them lock me out of pvping unless I tank bosses in AV while putting abilities I actually needed as a prot on deep tier in arms and it dawned on me that they have serious control issues and a limited concept of how "they" want things to go. This includes limited options for the player, so stop insulting each other as if you're the once creating a problem.

You're all just wondering why your options are so limited and raging against each other does nothing to solve the problem. You need to understand the fundamental direction of Blizz developers and come at them from that perspective. There are things they just won't do as it contradicts the formula they've been using all along. Allowing the sort of customization you're asking for falls under the "no, no" category as it gives too much control to the player in a game that's based around limiting the players to specific rotations in order to make the output predictable to the developers.

[Knighthonor]

Just make it so that each Presence grants the Death Knight user access to 1 additional rune of that school.

BBB/FF/UU

BB/FFF/UU

BB/FF/UUU

[Zealic]

Now that the Runes are locked, Deep Frost isn't good at all.. It's shit compared to Deep Blood & Unholy and Deep Unholy & Blood.. You'll always have some Runes which you won't be using effectively, which kinda sucks..
I agree with the idea of locking it 1/1/1 and giving the Deathknight a bit more freedom, making it a very unique class..

The locked setup now sucks.

[That Guy]

Giving the choice to change runes is like giving a mage a choice of having 30,000 mana for only fire spells.
Over
Powered
/thread

You mean aside from the nearly 15k mana some of them have now? and it is more like them only giving mages 1/3 of there mana pool for Arcane/Fire/Frost So while you may have 30k mana, you only get to use 9k of that for only very select spells.

And so what if the mage has 30km for fire spells? Do you use Arcane Int? Ice block? Frost nova? Blink? If you can sit there and tell me that with ONLY fire spells that you would be a unstoppable force, i'd like to see this.

That the point of customization.. You limit your self in one area to build up strength in another. By only using fire spells, you lack the ablilty to use Arcane and Frost, In turn, you stack blood runes, you lack the ablilty to use Frost or Unholy for longer pierods of time, If you completely remove one rune type you completely lock your self out of that list of abilites. again, Self balencing system.

I agree with you on the rune change, its lame. But the fact that you used hunters and only hunters as an example is a bad move.

Lord, it was just a example, excuse me if i didnt want to make the rant longer then it was already... someone had to be the example, and i went with hunters.

This "strikes" me as a delicately balanced issue. While there's certainly more to be considered than I can cover briefly or has already been said, two points stand out:
-Allowing full, or even partial, rune selection would give Deathknights a degree of rotation control that could be overpowered. Much of the alpha leak theorycrafting centered around "perfect rotations", a rune configuration and skill rotation that would effectively negate Runes as a resource (by making them a functionally unlimited and nonlimiting resource). Many varieties of these rotations were successfully put together.

-The talent trees were designed and balanced around the ability to configure your runes. Many talents are designed around specific rotations or specific sorts of rune consumption. The most obvious of these is Unbreakable Armor, which has had it's proc rate and proc effect adjusted twice to rebalance the effect around the assumption that a build that deep in frost would be using more than 2 frost runes. The initial 15% chance to proc 30% armor and 15% parry was found to be underpowered for a talent that deep in frost. It's proc rate was adjusted to 25% around the same time that Rune configuration was implemented and it was, frankly, ridiculous. A 4 frost rune config could count on a near-constant uptime that, combined with the then easily accessible Blade Barrier (higher in the tree than it is now) made Deathknights unstoppable juggernauts. It needed a nerf, and got a nerf, and then the core ability that made the nerf necessary (ability to configure runes) was removed.

I hope that we see talents rebalanced to prevent rune config abuses balanced again in consideration of this change. I can see the argument for 2/2/2, and speculated about this earlier, but they need to take another look at the talent trees in light of that.

I complete agree with your point sir, your not wrong, and I my self was a little annoyed with all the min/maxing on the "set up" myself, However, As you stated, They will need to re-do the entire class's combat system if they change the entire resorce system that goes along with it. And as is stands on, you would use far more unholy runes then any other type as they have made unholy rune heavy.

My main problem with all this comes in here: Blizzard said one thing, and did one thing, decided it would be to much work and are copping out to make there job easier on them, and they have been doing this sence the start of the game (Completely redoing talent trees in WoW, Giving Horde and Alliance Paladins & Shamans, saying that runic power is like Rage (which it is absolutly the spliting copy of it, just a lot harder to get built up) etc...)
More over, If the skills in question, the abilities in question were balenced for 222 builds as the Blues claim, Then why is the frost spec so horridly gimpped by this? It should not have effected them as much as it has if what they are saying is true.

and (Completely off your reply Gestalt) I just feel sick when people talk about Balence.

What kinda of balence are you looking for!? What aspect of the game are we talking? PVP? PVE? Solo/Farming? and are you aware that blizzard said this game wasnt balenced for each class to compete agenst each other? or did they go back on that too?

I'm not asking for complete customization, But this is a MMORPG for god's sake and there is such a HUGE lack of customization that its almost sickening. Be it in your Charaters, Talents, Skill Uses, Gear, Farming spots.

What i am asking is that blizzard rethink taking the rune system this way, its fine with me if they want to nerf the damages a little on skills such as blood strike spammers, and Icy touch spammers. Besides, The rune set up could be convernted to a money dump by tieing it to respecing and when you respec, you have to reset your runes and your talents.

[Zealic]

I completely agree on That Guy on this topic.

If they have to lock it somehow, maybe do it so you can maximum have 3 of the same rune, or locking it to 1/1/1 with 3 available to choose.

And to you who says it's balancing the system, please tell me how it will be overpowered to have, say 6 of same rune? It won't work, you will need your diseases on, will be best anyhow. Locking it, makes Deathknights unbalanced, and weak. If they go Deep something, the loose the effectiveness of 2 Runes, which is 33% of your capability..

Come with an example of it being overpowered, and we can discuss it from there.