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  1. #1

    Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    The new system is very simple, elegant and VERY effective. Too many people are making it overly complex. Here is the break down:

    Seals:
    A buff that is placed on your character that lasts 30 seconds.
    It only goes away when it times out or is removed by some other ability from a mob/pvp player.
    If you have the Ret. Talent: Sanctified Seals (3 points) your seals cannot be dispelled/removed.

    Judgements:
    Three different spells that can only be used when ANY seal is active.
    All three spells share the same cool down.
    The JUDGEMENT spell, not the active SEAL, determines what new debuff goes on the mob when judged.
    All JUDGEMENTS do base holy damage regardless of what seal is active.


    Example A)

    Paladin runs up to mob and starts attacking with weapon.
    All 3 Judgement spells are greyed-out and unable to be cast.
    Paladin cast Seal of Light.
    Seal of light buff is now active on the Paladin & ALL THREE JUDGEMENTS (Light / Wisdom / Justice) are now available to be cast.
    Paladin chooses to cast Judgement of WISDOM - three things happen:
    1) Seal of LIGHT stays active on the Paladin
    2) Judgement of WISDOM DEBUFF is put on the mob
    3) Mob takes base Holy damage from Judgement spell.

    End result: Paladin has seal health regen buff on attack swings, and mob has wisdom regen debuff on attack swings.


    Example B)

    Paladin runs up to mob and starts attacking with weapon.
    All 3 Judgement spells are greyed-out and unable to be cast.
    Paladin cast Seal of Vengeance / Corruption (same spell, different faction names).
    Seal buff is now active on the Paladin & ALL THREE JUDGEMENTS (Light / Wisdom / Justice) are now available to be cast.
    SEAL DEBUFF is placed on the mob next swing doing holy damage over time.

    Paladin chooses to cast Judgement of WISDOM - three things happen:
    1) Seal of Vengeance / Corruption stays active on the Paladin
    2) Judgement of WISDOM DEBUFF is put on the mob IN ADDITION TO THE SEAL DEBUFF.
    3) Mob takes Holy damage from Judgement spell, which is INCREASED by the seal having an "on judgement" damage modifier.

    End result: Paladin has cause holy dot on attack swings, mob has holy dot debuff (from the seal) AND regen mana debuff (from the judgement).


    Side note: Seal of Vengeance / Corruption are now 100% proc on swing, not "chance on swing".

  2. #2
    Khody
    Guest

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Wow I didn't do any research on this at all but I'm kinda liking how it sounds.

    What I don't like is having more buttons on my action bar :/

    Maybe I could make a macro for it. Let's say Judgement of Wisdom is 3. I could make Shift + 3 Judgement of light and make Cntrl 3 JoJ.

    Anyone want to tell me the script to make that possible?

  3. #3

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Quote Originally Posted by Khody
    Wow I didn't do any research on this at all but I'm kinda liking how it sounds.

    What I don't like is having more buttons on my action bar :/

    Maybe I could make a macro for it. Let's say Judgement of Wisdom is 3. I could make Shift + 3 Judgement of light and make Cntrl 3 JoJ.

    Anyone want to tell me the script to make that possible?
    /cast [nomod] Judgement of Wisdom; [mod:shift] Judgement of Light; [mod:ctrl] Judgement of Justice

  4. #4
    Khody
    Guest

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Thanks! Wrote that one down for the expansion. Thanks again.

  5. #5

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Quote Originally Posted by Khody
    Wow I didn't do any research on this at all but I'm kinda liking how it sounds.

    What I don't like is having more buttons on my action bar :/
    Not sure how your bars are setup, but I was more than happy to find the spot for new buttons.

    And you will like how it plays even more. It is awesome. I had healing gear mostly, and went with this build at 70:
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAdxMzhVzGZZVfxx000h

    With all the crit working for both physical and spells I am Holy Shock critting, instacast Holy Lights, and getting Sheath of Light all over the place. I can kill stuff pretty quickly as a shockadin, but Ret. Paladins are just chewing through mobs right now.

    This will be my final build at 80 for PVE / Groups / BG's:
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxA...zGxZZVfxxb00hh

    I just like how it works, not saying it will be OP'ed or anything, but with the new system I am enjoying the build a lot.

  6. #6

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Elegant is a very good way to describe it. Currently as Ret and Prot i find the judging system to be rather clunky and irritating. This is less noticeable as Prot, simply because as alliance re-sealing myself as quickly as possible isn't as much of an issue. But as Ret, judging command, then re-sealing can be incredibly frustrating, especially when you judge a fraction of a second too soon, and your macro for judge/re-seal says "ability not ready yet" etc.

    I for one cannot wait for this to be implemented.

    Can you tell us if judging now triggers the global cooldown and/or costs mana?

  7. #7

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Quote Originally Posted by Borg
    Can you tell us if judging now triggers the global cooldown and/or costs mana?
    Sorry, I did not notice while playing, and pulling an all nighter at work. I will double check when I get back to my computer tomorrow.

  8. #8
    Khody
    Guest

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Oh damn. If it does trigger the GCD then that's a big deal. I liked Holy shock/ judgement instant crits.

    Not to mention that'll limit our ability to judge and continue healing.

  9. #9

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Sounds good to me, the only part that i did find odd was

    "All JUDGEMENTS do base holy damage regardless of what seal is active"

    So each of the Judgement Spells also has Built in amount Holy damage which is increased if the Judgement would normally do damage on its own (IE SoV or SoR)

    So in terms of game mechanics.
    -You need to cast seals less
    -You get extra Holy Damage from normal seals
    -You can keep a utility judgement on at all times
    Sounds like good stuff to me
    >:7

    Full Bloggage: - http://nuronv.wordpress.com
    Micro Blogs: - http://twitter.com/nuron_v

  10. #10

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Seal of Justice then cast Judgeemnt of Justice = What would happen?

    Will the Judgement from the seal do anything?
    Paladins are Cool Now?
    What happen to Kalgan?

  11. #11

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Quote Originally Posted by Khody
    Oh damn. If it does trigger the GCD then that's a big deal. I liked Holy shock/ judgement instant crits.

    Not to mention that'll limit our ability to judge and continue healing.
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=54155

  12. #12

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Only thing I have not find anywhere yet is if the original ability called 'Judgement' will be removed. You'd think: why the hell would he wanna use that one? Well cause I think that for example 'Judgement of Wisdom' will cost more mana than judgement would. and why would you keep using jow once its up?

  13. #13

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuronv
    Sounds good to me, the only part that i did find odd was

    "All JUDGEMENTS do base holy damage regardless of what seal is active"

    So each of the Judgement Spells also has Built in amount Holy damage which is increased if the Judgement would normally do damage on its own (IE SoV or SoR)
    Yes, that is what Blizzard means by working Crusader into other abilities; but would just switch one part to be correct:

    So each of the Judgement Spells also has built in amount of Holy damage which is increased if the Active Seal would normally do damage on its own (IE SoV or SoR)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuronv
    So in terms of game mechanics.
    -You need to cast seals less
    -You get extra Holy Damage from normal seals
    -You can keep a utility judgement on at all times
    Sounds like good stuff to me
    Yes.
    Yes.
    Yes.

    And the Judgements are still refreshed by any successful hit, Seals are refreshed with a new cast as needed.

  14. #14

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Quote Originally Posted by Knighthonor
    Seal of Justice then cast Judgeemnt of Justice = What would happen?

    Will the Judgement from the seal do anything?
    Nothing more than the Judgement would do with a different Active Seal. But if you wanted to have the random stun chance from the Seal you could have the Seal buff and Judge to keep them from running, or judge light/wisdom and still have the buff to cause random stuns on you. {EDIT: Seal of Justice is bugged right now, but will be fixed before beta ends}

    Quote Originally Posted by zab
    Only thing I have not find anywhere yet is if the original ability called 'Judgement' will be removed. You'd think: why the hell would he wanna use that one? Well cause I think that for example 'Judgement of Wisdom' will cost more mana than judgement would. and why would you keep using jow once its up?
    The old Judgement is gone. Does not exist. Thank the light.

  15. #15

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    seems like a nice change for pallies can't wait to try it on mine


  16. #16

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Thank you very much for the info Voidseeker it has been very informative!
    I'm quite looking forward to this, Should go a long way to help those who are ret specced with their mana issues
    >:7

    Full Bloggage: - http://nuronv.wordpress.com
    Micro Blogs: - http://twitter.com/nuron_v

  17. #17

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Sounds good - thanks for the info, finally a needed change in the seal system.

  18. #18

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Quote Originally Posted by xano880
    seems like a nice change for pallies can't wait to try it on mine
    It so very is. Paladins play like I have always wanted them to play, even as a healer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuronv
    Thank you very much for the info Voidseeker it has been very informative!
    I'm quite looking forward to this, Should go a long way to help those who are ret specced with their mana issues
    There is one talent that solves that issue outright: Judgements of the Wise.

    25 points into Ret, 3 point talent: Returns 60% of DAMAGE DONE by a Judgement as mana to 3 people in group or raid. It is rumored to be a smart mana regen e.g. it will go to the players with the smallest/lowest active/remaining mana. Solo it is just a mana battery as Judgements will return more mana than it costs to cast the Judgement. In groups/raids mana regen will almost always go to the Ret Pallies and Prot Pallies as their active mana amount will be very low.

  19. #19

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie
    Sounds good - thanks for the info, finally a needed change in the seal system.
    More than welcome. Happy to share as I was totally floored playing with it. It is a perfect fix for Paladins and I hope it survives with very few changes at release.

  20. #20

    Re: Simple explination for the new Seals/Judgements

    I want to know what all the crying has been about then. So you can now generate mana for yourself and those around you, and generate health for those around you as well.
    So mana issues are solved, damage issues solved, utility issues solved and gear/stats have been solved.

    We need something new to moan about....do you find that your plate armor chafes when you walk, i demand we are supplied with talc!
    >:7

    Full Bloggage: - http://nuronv.wordpress.com
    Micro Blogs: - http://twitter.com/nuron_v


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