Thread: Shockadin

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  1. #21

    Re: Shockadin

    Of course, now you've all analysed it to death here, Blizz will see just how badass this build could potentially be and nerf it into the ground before the xpac reaches retail. :P

  2. #22

    Re: Shockadin

    Quote Originally Posted by loopy
    Of course, now you've all analysed it to death here, Blizz will see just how badass this build could potentially be and nerf it into the ground before the xpac reaches retail. :P
    Shh! As long as no one in beta plays a Shockadin we're set! Blizz doesnt care about forums. ^_^ haha

  3. #23

  4. #24

    Re: Shockadin

    Quote Originally Posted by Smackthat
    Repentance = Full of win.
    Besides that, you also probably wont need the 15% intel bonus, since you'll probably never oom now...

  5. #25

    Re: Shockadin

    Ok I had to register just to make a post here. I quit wow for awhile but the concept of the shockadin and how powerful these new talents make it (As you all are seeing) was strong enough to bring me back. That being said, prepare for long post.
    Quote Originally Posted by loopy
    Of course, now you've all analysed it to death here, Blizz will see just how badass this build could potentially be and nerf it into the ground before the xpac reaches retail. :P
    After reading some of the changes on skill description today, I fear this post might already be true .

    If anyone hasnt noticed yet, many skill descriptions were minied to read to gain damage based on SPH (I assume this is spellpower) and ATP (attack power obviously)

    This includes everything but holy shock. Consecration, JOR, JOV/C, all our good stuff for holy dps. The only problem is, in most cases these coefficients are equal, and in one case (the SOV/C DOT) way lower than the ATP one.

    The problem with this is, atp is gained MUCH more easilly than SP. Thus, these SPELLS are going to benefit from stacking atp more than spellpower by far. And as such, plugging in some numbers made it seem worse, as the damage seems slightly nerfed on some, and massively nerfed if you are stacking spellpower.

    The best example I can give off the top of my head is Conc. Right now it reads something along the lines of 8* (113 + SPH * 0.04 + ATP * 0.04). Which is basically 32% of atp and SP for the total damage, or 4% per tick. Now I can pull some numbers out of my ass, but I beleive 1k was a strong SP in TBC and 2500 was a strong ATP. So it should be obvious this is gaining MUCH more from ATP than spellpower. But also it seems the general coeeficient is MUCH lower. Conc used to gain what I beleive was close to 0.9 of spellpower. Even if one had 1k SP and 1k ATP (which is possible I guess with might) it would be much lower damage overall.

    This treatment is similar in other holy stuff. SOR seems to be about equal, this one has a 0.1 for SP and 0.05 for ATP. So SP is ALMOST as good as ATP here, and the damage seems only slightly lower than before. But SOV/C, which having been horde myself I salivated over because it was an insane Shockadin seal, now has less than half the coeeficient for SP that it does for ATP on the dot. Its a little better on the Judge though (something like 0.58 SP and 0.32 ATP) but still suffers greatly. Oh and its only 10% more judge damage per stack now, not a solid amount more (which is stupid, its a waste to judge a 5 stack now).

    That being said, I have my own imput on the spec thing too. I wanted somethign like this - http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...13531105000000

    This is a pure PVE dps build for now, as I dont plan on delving into pvp for awhile. The goal being as much DPS as possible and still having healing. I chose the Ret route mostly cause I feared aggro, but also cause the alternative of holy guidance was equal to the full vengence damage wise, and I gained 25% crit on judges to boot. Cant beat that since that gives me my infinate mana. Which was the only thing stopping me from being viable DPS before. I took purifying power because conc is expensive however its a huge boost to my dps (well was, if these changes remain this wont be true now )

    Feel free to tear apart that spec but it offers the absolute most DPS possible... well before this ATP thing. If my entire rant becomes true then the only way to really be a shockadin will be to gear for ret and simply take holy shock - and probobly have the same spelldamage anyway cause fully buffed in ret gear sheath of light almost gives the same spelldamage now -_-

  6. #26

    Re: Shockadin

    Alright, thanks everyone for taking care of this issue. Shockadin it is. Feel free to keep talking about Shockadins here, would be nice if this thread gets up to date about nerfs Blizzard might make, etc about Shockadins.

  7. #27

    Re: Shockadin

    Something else i've not seen mentioned yet.

    The 4 piece set bonus for the Gladiator's Ornamented Arena gear is:
    Increases the healing from your Holy Shock spell by 30%.

    After the spellpower change in WotLK it turns into:
    Increases the spell power of your Holy Shock spell by 30%.

    Ho ho ho. I think i'm going to have to complete my set for this.


    Shockadin powah!

  8. #28
    Epic! Swampmoose's Avatar
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    Re: Shockadin

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirth
    Something else i've not seen mentioned yet.

    The 4 piece set bonus for the Gladiator's Ornamented Arena gear is:
    Increases the healing from your Holy Shock spell by 30%.

    After the spellpower change in WotLK it turns into:
    Increases the spell power of your Holy Shock spell by 30%.

    Ho ho ho. I think i'm going to have to complete my set for this.


    Shockadin powah!
    Who knows if they are going to keep the same bonus on level 80 sets. I would doubt it. Would be good for the 70-73 grind, not much else after that.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...t&n=Swampmoose

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoll
    Stop getting horny goo, judge on cd.

  9. #29

    Re: Shockadin

    Isnt anyone else worried about the changes and how they severely weaken holy dps?

  10. #30

    Re: Shockadin

    maybe i missed one of the upcoming notes, but i thought they were making it so spell power and healing are going to be on the same set, just the stats on the gear with change

    and i know healing is spell power x 3, so wont the gear just be like...100 spell power, and u do w/e to switch it to healing, and it becomes 300 healing? no?

    so if this is right, shockadin pallys can wear the same thing as holy pallys

  11. #31

    Re: Shockadin

    Im talking about the change where ATP affects the damage of all paladin spells and seals, mainly concecration, seal of righteousness, seal of vengence, and all judgements. And the affect from ATP is in most cases better than the affect from SP.

    which means, if you try to go pure spellpower, your 'spells' are going to suck. hard. Ret paladins conc will be doing well over double the damage of even the most damage based shockadin with insane spelldamage. SOR is actually better than SOB in most cases. SOV gains almost nothing from SP but insane amounts from ATP, which makes keeping it ticking as ret actually a viable and good idea.

    Check out the current changes to skills in the recent blue post. Between those lines about 2 min seals and judges not eating them -_-

  12. #32

    Re: Shockadin

    How about an attackpower based shockadin?

    meaning:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    You go with ret gear, no problem, crit is the same, you get shitloads of strength and go BoM and divine strength. Sheath of light will be fully used due to this, instead of going with a hybrid divine guidance-sheath of light where you only waste 3 talents for the HoT.

    You got seal of command, to use on burst combos, like hoJ socommand DF holy shock, and SoV to stack up the dots which fully benefit from both AP and spellpower. SoR while HoJ is down. No mana issues due to 1pt in JoW, judgement that will do loads of damage.

    What do you think?

    I'm still preferring good old ret, but for the lovers of the shock'em'hard, this is my version.

    Enjoy.

    Cheerz

  13. #33

    Re: Shockadin

    If the current changes are put into place, then yes, to gear up fully as ret sans the 2her would be the path. But this will emphasise white damage so much and using a 1her will limit that, it makes you want to forgo holy shock to go full ret...

    Basically before fully speccing holy spellpower dps could compete with ret on its own right. Now, you are forced to gain atp to do dps. Whats even worse however, is if a paladin goes holy to be ap ure healer, thier offensive abilities to basically grind or level are going to be taken away...

    But yet, wearing ATP gear and a spelldamage 1her and shield would be the way to go should these changes be put in place if you wanted to be a shockadin. Your SP will be nearly the same with a solid ATP and Sheath, and the spellpower gained from a 1her + shield far outweighs the ATP gained from a 1her and shield. IF you want to think of 2h shockadining, well, you might as well go full ret then.

    The lure of shockadin to me was basically being a spelldamage dps class in melee range that could use a sword and board. a 2Her has no lure to me.

  14. #34

    Re: Shockadin

    Bumping for the interested.

  15. #35

    Re: Shockadin

    as a shockadin i'd go with spelldamage mace and board anyway, no twohanders.

  16. #36

    Re: Shockadin

    Yes when I did some math 2Hers dont add enough ATP in any form to compete with what the spelldamage of the sword and board would add to all skills. The only reason I would consider a 2h is because with all that ATP it would seem like a good idea to take advantage of white damage.

    However I wonder if it would be possible to sneak in Shield of the Righteous offensively . Depends on how much extra threat is built in.

    A melee shockadin seems scary but it really might work. Your holy shock might suffer a bit, but since I am concerned with the possibility of actual DPS it doesnt seem like its cost effective mana wise.

  17. #37

    Re: Shockadin

    Damn, This AP change has me stuck. I was about to buy some arena pieces but Kline's reasoning sounds pretty sensible. I guess i'll wait and see if they keep the beta changes

  18. #38

    Re: Shockadin

    Looking at the numbers, we see that you gain much more dps from attack power than spell power. But, this does not mean we will always want to go for attack power, at least in PvP. I'm not certain how Shockadin dps will hold up to Ret dps in wotlk, but so far, it doesnt look promising. /sad face.

    Anyway, let's say you play 2v2. It may be a more desireable option to go for full spell power instead of attack power, since spell power dps will increase your healing more than attack power.

    So far, I really am not liking that spell power is taking a back seat in our spells to attack power. Yes, I am a biased Shockadin, but it really is reducing our viability.

    I am personally still looking forward to Board of the Righteousing people in the face though. ^_^

  19. #39

    Re: Shockadin

    Quote Originally Posted by Moar Pew Pew
    Looking at the numbers, we see that you gain much more dps from attack power than spell power. But, this does not mean we will always want to go for attack power, at least in PvP. I'm not certain how Shockadin dps will hold up to Ret dps in wotlk, but so far, it doesnt look promising. /sad face.

    Anyway, let's say you play 2v2. It may be a more desireable option to go for full spell power instead of attack power, since spell power dps will increase your healing for than attack power.

    So far, I really am not liking that spell power is taking a back seat in our spells to attack power. Yes, I am a biased Shockadin, but it really is reducing our viability.

    I am personally still looking forward to Board of the Righteousing people in the face though. ^_^
    1) They have not tuned the melee DPS of Paladins - expect a huge nerf to Ret very shortly after they get done with the mechanics and start working on where all the classes will line up on DPS. There will not be the same nerf to Shock/Holy spells.

    2) Only worry about AP if you are going RET. If you are going to go holy/Shock builds go ALL Spellpower and just treat AP as a bonus. If you are going Prot worry about STAM & STRENGTH and treat AP/SP as a bonus on gear.

    3) Shockadins WILL go sword & board or Mace & Shield, NOT 2H. You are not going to be smacking people to death with your 1H, you are going to Judgeing and Shocking them to death while healing your whole team/group/raid.

    4) Shockadins WILL go up Retribution to get Judgements of the Wise as the Mana return is stupid good, helps to fight against Mana Burn/Drain, and is just plain 100% win. The amount of downtime as a Paladin of any spec is cut dramatically with that talent.

  20. #40

    Re: Shockadin

    While it is true the highest healing returns will come from Going pure spellpower, the damage is going to suffer greatly. True if you only plan on shocking and judging it wont be too bad - HS is going to be pretty rediculous right now. But, good shockadin damage also came from SOR and a quick 1H. it was like a eally amazing dot. SOV always made me jealous as horde, because it was pretty much MADE for shockadins before this change. Now its the opposite.

    I think I am mostly bitter because I wanted to PVE dps as holy, something I had done before, and not done too shabby. The only weakness was mana and that being gone now (lol JotW) I was excited to prove everyone in my guild wrong for thinking I was an idiot (I am just crazy, not an idiot ).

    It will benefit to go pure AP and I beleive the best spec is to go deep into ret for the crit to judges, but if you are more excited for PVP then yes spelldamage will still be best, you will be a defensive god AND put out respectable damage at the same time. It just will be quite a bit weaker.

    I personally lost that massive drive to do this and decided a DK would be more up my alley. I will level a rogue to 55 for it since I quit and need to start over. I will miss the healing, but DKs kinda have some healing options while DPSing, which works enough for me.

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