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  1. #61

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panoramixe
    Improved Moonkin Aura does need a little bit lower CD, but even as it stands it’s a decent talent.
    The thing with IMKA is that it doesn't stack with WoAT, it's a 10% spell haste increase, I'd rather have a solid 20% damage increase to have it stack with WoAT, because right now it just does't have any synergy. Also, even if it did stack, it's still worse than WoAT, a baseline spell. I do think it should be on par with it.
    Typhoon is bugged; don’t bother whining about it until it at least works properly.
    Can you quote a Blue post to confirm that Typhoon is bugged?
    If they haven't said anything about it then it's ok for people to let the blues know.
    Thorns was overpowered in the alpha build. The damage is likely just an oversight, which will get changed in an upcoming beta build. The daze effect, however, was ridiculous, any DW class would be slowed constantly just by a single buff. Of course I’d like it, but that doesn’t make it balanced.
    Thorns was right between Ret Aura (112) and LS (380), both scale with spell damage. Now it's just the worse spell damage-wise. I don't think it's weak right now because it scales, but I do think it should be better than Ret Aura.

    The only OP thing about the daze effect was the fact that anyone with the Thorns buff would proc it.
    You can only keep a DW dazed for as long as he sticks to you, which is exactly what they want. The duration is only 3 seconds and the speed reduction is 50%, it would run out as soon as you gained some distance.
    I don’t see the issue of “bloated trees”, you have more options than other classes be glad.
    If you don't see the bloated trees then I honestly don't know what to say to you. You really can't get all the aoe and PvE talents in one build. And we don't have many options, we need to spec 16ish points deep into Resto, which severely cuts our spec options, we don't even have enough talent points to get all the dps, utility and mana conservation talents.

    Eclipse is a 1, 6 % damage boost for 1 talent point, that’s not too bad. But it indeed needs some changes or it will be a talent to spot moonkin without a clue.
    No, it's not a 6% damage boost for 1 talent point. It's a nice talent but it needs way too many points for what it does.
    Now all the “good stuff” moonkin have gotten in beta.
    Every moonkin with a clue knows what we've gotten, and we all like it, but the fact that some talents remain underwhelming when compared with other classes (other hybrids, no less) remains.
    We like the direction Blizzard is going with our changes, we just think that we need a polish pass that adresses the issues mentioned before.
    If you can't see this then you are either too blind or too stubborn.


    PS. http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....26013395&sid=1 this is the thread we are talking about if anyone was wondering.

  2. #62
    Herald of the Titans naturetauren's Avatar
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    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    Moonkin Form.
    -Increase armor by 400%
    -Increase spell critical strike for the raid by 5%
    -Increase mana regenation by 50% and 20% of it continue while casting
    -Life bloom is now castable in Moonkin Form!

    Improved Moonkin Form
    -Each time you critical hit with a spell the spell haste rating for your raid is increased by 15%, 8 second duration. Has a 15 sec Cooldown.
    -When you cast Treants in Moonkin Form, they will become immun to damage and your treants receive an additional 20% damage from your total spell damage.

    -Dream State removed.

    -Typhoon and Starfall are only castable in Moonkin Form.

    What do we get? Better chance to survive against mages in moonkin form, a chance to hit 2000 rating as easy as frost mages, more people staying in the moonkin form and restokins removed from the game.
    OP? Think about it. Im from Algeria:P
    OP spells at Ashran? Based on faction population? Yes, WODs gonna be the most awesome expansion ever! Propably gonna hit under 4 million sub mark.

  3. #63

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by naturetauren
    Moonkin Form.
    -Increase armor by 400%
    -Increase spell critical strike for the raid by 5%
    -Increase mana regenation by 50% and 20% of it continue while casting
    -Life bloom is now castable in Moonkin Form!

    Improved Moonkin Form
    -Each time you critical hit with a spell the spell haste rating for your raid is increased by 15%, 8 second duration. Has a 15 sec Cooldown.
    -When you cast Treants in Moonkin Form, they will become immun to damage and your treants receive an additional 20% damage from your total spell damage.

    -Dream State removed.

    -Typhoon and Starfall are only castable in Moonkin Form.

    What do we get? Better chance to survive against mages in moonkin form, a chance to hit 2000 rating as easy as frost mages, more people staying in the moonkin form and restokins removed from the game.
    OP? Think about it. Im from Algeria:P
    uhh immune to damage? U serious? maybe some damage absorb mechanic but noway immune, come on think about it, whatd u say if mages got that with their elemental? (giving them avoidance like warlock pets got would greatly enhance them and maybe give them same effect?)

    Lifebloom in moonkin form? Sounds interesting, but I'd rather see the moonkinform mana cost reduced more, and some spell damage reduction added to either moonkin form, or even better to owlkin frenzy thing... maybe even increase the chance to proc. (imho it should be up constantly if u had a melee dw'er on you, but not if attacks are like once every 1.5-2seconds... hope what I said made sense =P)

    about regeneration, like the idea but honestly doubt pvp'ers will like it. (in pve that would be better then dreamstate and a very nicely scaling talent, in pvp, if gear is like now, I doubt it would beat dreamstate currently, as intensity doesn't and thats 30%)

    Now I assume, you mainly think about pvp, but honestly unless casters get changed from the down and up, then end game pvp in wotlk WILL be dominated by healer + melee, like it always has...

    Oh well just my way of seeing it atleast =)

  4. #64

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaleFolklore
    The thing with IMKA is that it doesn't stack with WoAT, it's a 10% spell haste increase, and I’d rather have a solid 20% damage increase to have it stack with WoAT, because right now it just doesn’t have any synergy. Also, even if it did stack, it's still worse than WoAT, a baseline spell. I do think it should be on par with it.
    Like I said I do agree they should lower the CD on IMKA, a flat 20% spellhaste however is an incredible dps boost. This could possibly lead to stacking of moonkin, which Blizzard tries to avoid.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaleFolklore
    Can you quote a Blue post to confirm that Typhoon is bugged?
    If they haven't said anything about it then it's ok for people to let the blues know. Thorns was right between Ret Aura (112) and LS (380), both scale with spell damage. Now it's just the worse spell damage-wise. I don't think it's weak right now because it scales, but I do think it should be better than Ret Aura. The only OP thing about the daze effect was the fact that anyone with the Thorns buff would proc it.
    You can only keep a DW dazed for as long as he sticks to you, which is exactly what they want. The duration is only 3 seconds and the speed reduction is 50%, it would run out as soon as you gained some distance.
    I just figured typhoon wasn’t finished yet the way it looks and the way people talk about it, if it’s the exact same in the next beta build I hope the beta moonkin whine about it.
    About thorns it’s a buff and can be cast on anyone, any time. To use retribution aura they need to sacrifice another aura, the damage however should be about the same. I’m just saying the daze effect was over the top, since every group member would have it which would piss off any melee in arena.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaleFolklore
    If you don't see the bloated trees then I honestly don't know what to say to you. You really can't get all the aoe and PvE talents in one build. And we don't have many options, we need to spec 16ish points deep into Resto, which severely cuts our spec options, we don't even have enough talent points to get all the dps, utility and mana conservation talents.
    Just read my post again I said I didn’t see the issue, I’m not blind. Imo we don’t need the aoe talents for pve, we give a 50% attack debuff which is the main benefit from our aoe. There are plenty of other classes that can do the nuking, but the debuff will make tanks and healers love us. If you drop the aoe talents you can make a decent pve raiding build. (Just remember you’ll need single target dps a lot more than aoe damage.)
    For example:
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0xzruizsAdIVoopZfMcub

    Quote Originally Posted by PaleFolklore
    No, it's not a 6% damage boost for 1 talent point. It's a nice talent but it needs way too many points for what it does. Every moonkin with a clue knows what we've gotten, and we all like it, but the fact that some talents remain underwhelming when compared with other classes (other hybrids, no less) remains.
    We like the direction Blizzard is going with our changes, we just think that we need a polish pass that address the issues mentioned before.
    If you can't see this then you are either too blind or too stubborn.
    I said a 1,6% boost, not a 6% boost. It only needs 1 point for that, which isn’t all too bad. I did say however it still needs some work.
    I also said some talents need minor fixes and Blizzard is clearly in the middle of doing this for all classes at the moment, I just reserve my judgement for when they come to druids.

    Just to make it clear:
    I do agree some talents need minor fixes, I don’t however agree with the whiners who say balance as it stands is nerfed and useless.
    The post in question is a bit cluttered has a bad lay-out and needs some work to make the points a bit clearer. If he would just make the post a hell of a lot shorter and talk a bit more to the point I could agree with him, but as it is now it sounds way too negative and has no solutions.

  5. #65

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidders
    This ^

    The changes are great, tho I guess people will complain about anything eh?
    What looks good on paper doesnt Mean its good in real play

  6. #66
    greenmasheen
    Guest

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by naturetauren
    Why are all our abilities on CD? Kalgan, your an epic fail, stop being so "imba" and add these:

    Imped moonkin form. 15 sec CD on 20% haste on crit AND increase the total mana by 5/10/15%.

    Typhoon. Make it pushback alot more than just 5 * yards.

    Owlkin Frenzy. 15% chance to gain stupid abilities? It should be 75% chance to increase damage by 10% and restore 2% mana in moonkin form...

    Eclipse shouldnt have a CD!

    Gale winds should increase Cyclone range by 5/10 yards!

    Moonkin Form should give the druid spell damage based on the mana, for all loss because of these stupid changes.

    Lower the CD on Starfall so we are not forced to heal 90% of the time in arena.

    The enrage of feral druids also makes me sad. The trees are * up atm, all thanks to Kalgan. My friend that had hope about dual wielding 2h's are crying now. One hand equiped with a 2h weapon. Go fire Kalgal and hire a kid that has love for balance druids.



    you arnt a mage, you are a druid who tries to be a mage. you are also a support class, so enough Q.Q

  7. #67

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    Like I said I do agree they should lower the CD on IMKA, a flat 20% spellhaste however is an incredible dps boost. This could possibly lead to stacking of moonkin, which Blizzard tries to avoid.
    Well, the stacking moonkins issue could be adressed by new IMKA procs just refreshing the old ones instead of stacking (I'm not sure how it works right now), but the fact that IMKA does not stack with WoAT (which every caster will have) remains, making IMKA a 10% spellhaste increase, not a 20% one.
    I'd either, let the two of them stack (for a total of 30% haste) or simply switch the 20% spellhaste effect with a different one, like 20% damage.

    I do know you mentioned it did need a CD reduction, I'm just not sure you understand the synergy issue it has atm.
    About thorns it’s a buff and can be cast on anyone, any time. To use retribution aura they need to sacrifice another aura, the damage however should be about the same. I’m just saying the daze effect was over the top, since every group member would have it which would piss off any melee in arena.
    Ret aura can't be dispelled, affects the whole raid, lasts until cancelled, costs no mana and can be talented to give dps buffs. Thorns shouldn't be weaker.
    Also, yes, I did mention it was OP having everyone with the buff proc the daze, this could be fixed by restricting the proc to the druid with the talent. Either that or just scrap the idea (daze on barkskin is honestly terrible and makes no sense) and substitute it with a better effect (2/4 extra seconds for barkskin for instance).
    Just read my post again I said I didn’t see the issue, I’m not blind. Imo we don’t need the aoe talents for pve, we give a 50% attack debuff which is the main benefit from our aoe. There are plenty of other classes that can do the nuking, but the debuff will make tanks and healers love us. If you drop the aoe talents you can make a decent pve raiding build. (Just remember you’ll need single target dps a lot more than aoe damage.)
    And that's where you are wrong, AoE is going to be much more important in WoTLK, it's been mentioned several times before.
    I said a 1,6% boost, not a 6% boost. It only needs 1 point for that, which isn’t all too bad. I did say however it still needs some work.
    I also said some talents need minor fixes and Blizzard is clearly in the middle of doing this for all classes at the moment, I just reserve my judgement for when they come to druids.
    About the 1,6% boost point, my bad, I misread.
    Blizzard is in the middle of doing polish passes for all classes, true, and that's exactly why I'm concerned. A blue posted in each of those classes' forums and said they would be doing a polish pass, they haven't posted something like that in the druid forums (as of now), and that's the reason I belive it is important for Moonkins to post all the feedback they can about the current beta talents instead of just assuming it'll be done.
    The blues have already mentioned they do read the forums and they showed us that they do take our feedback into account, so why should we remain silent when there are some small tweaks that would make Balance incredibly enjoyable in WoTLK?


    I do know you understand most of this, I just disagree with how you think Moonkins should not voice their oppinion and assume the devs already know this.
    Feedback =/= QQ

    The changes suggested in that thread aren't as idiotic as naturetauren's

  8. #68

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    Well tbh, it sucks, big time
    If in doubt afk out

    01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110011 01110101 01100011 01101011

  9. #69

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    After reading the moonkin changes I'm still worried about pve raid *desirablility* (note I didn't say viability as we've been viable for many patches now). I haven't seen anyone w00t about how awesome indoor roots are in the beta testing going on yet...is it as good of a cc as fear or sheep? Especially since its own damage (good grief) can break itself?!? What other talents will *really* make regular joes salivate and cry for boomkins when pugging a heroic...anything at all?

    As a well-geared moonkin-for-lifer, over the years I've been spit on and trampled and left out of many guild's raids when we (they) are going for the final bosses, most recently Kaelthas and Vashj.

    QQ4me.

    So, my biggest worry is that even in WotLK *either* most (if not all) guild officers still won't have a freakin CLUE about moonkin goodness, or they will once again use moonkin to advance their raids until the final bosses and then leave us sitting on the bench at the instance doorway. C'mon Blizz, these changes are a good START but please put more thought into high-end pve...please!
    "He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!"--Khan Noonien Singh

  10. #70

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    First of all roots don't break on their own damage, the damage ticks just seem to be happening at the same time as the resist checks.
    Secondly it's an awesome cc, play a lower level druid and go do ZF.
    Thirdly we're very likely to still get our polish pass, some classes (mages) have gotten big buffs to talents comparable to earth and moon. So we'll probably get some too.

    In conclusion we'll be great in 5-mans no matter what cc + dps, for raids we'll do fine as it is. To be great, however, we need our polish pass.

  11. #71

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthara
    because you're a complete idiot?

    you are a hybrid you will never compete with a pure DPS class, deal with it. being able to Burst and semi heal is not balanced

    Deal with it

    And FFS learn to freakin spell English Learn it Love it use it

    The user has been banned for this post
    Wow really? this person was banned for that post? Have seen so many other flames on this forum and none have been banned.

    /confused...

  12. #72

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    as a long time moonkin myself i am also among the balance group who isnt that happy with the moonkin tree. Sure we have gotten some fancy new spells such as starfire and typhoon but in the bigger picture doesnt every other class and spec in the game as well? Most of the other classes who are already OP against druids got even better buffs then us. But the major problem is that the talent tree is to bloated , they nerf lunar guidance then make it impossible to get master shapeshifter without missing out on important and needed talents. i cant say for sure because i havent played in the beta yet but at the moment it seems our playstyle is going to be close to the same as last game except a couple more beneficial buffs to pve which i personally do not do or care much for. i dont know if anybody notices this but doesnt it seem like whenever theres a weak class that blizzard just gives them pets to summon to shut them up , exammples would be enhance shammys wolves and our trees . they are nice but not enough.

  13. #73

    Re: Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

    The balance issues have finally been posted on beta forums.
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...o=1&sid=2003#0

    Think I summed up all the issues in that thread, just post here if anything is missing.

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