Penance and Dispersion...suck?

[Marrakech]

You are a really stupid person and you clearly no nothing about this game that you pay monthly for.

I guess this sums up most of the mmo-champion community, dismissive and afraid to welcome the truth.

Because clearly i know nothing about this game or any of the 4 classes i raid as.

[Pauridius]

because the hunters didnt QQ when all other classes were getting alpha notes right?

and you must know by now that QQ leads to buffs, i mean look at paladins

Thats a completely different thing though, and it still wasn't even that bad.

And are you trying to say that the paladins weren't in need of those buffs? Cause they sure as hell were.

And yeah, maybe shadow priests could use slight buffs here and there, but they basically have a guarenteed raid spot, a lot more than certain specs of other classes have.

[jhemfl]

Lets list what shadow priests are getting:

1.) 10% extra damage from SWP
2.) We only have to cast SWP 1 time in a fight
3.) A talent that Improves the Damage of Mind Flay and Mind Blast by 5% for each dot on the target (15% for UD Spriests)
4.) 2x critical strike bonus instead of 1.5x
5.) A talent that will give use +50% spirit every crit we get, and then another talent that adds spell damage equal to 30% of our spirit (So what? in WotLK probably 500-600 spell damage add on per crit for 8 seconds)
6.) And a talent that reduces the amount SW recoils us for, which means we cause use it on more fights
EDIT: 7.) 5% extra spell dmg from discipline talent, (because they removed wand Spec)

If you think we did not get superbly buffed for end game PvE you are a complete idiot

[Marrakech]

Lets list what shadow priests are getting:

1.) 10% extra damage from SWP
2.) We only have to cast SWP 1 time in a fight
3.) A talent that Improves the Damage of Mind Flay and Mind Blast by 5% for each dot on the target (15% for UD Spriests)
4.) 2x critical strike bonus instead of 1.5x
5.) A talent that will give use +50% spirit every crit we get, and then another talent that adds spell damage equal to 30% of our spirit (So what? in WotLK probably 500-600 spell damage add on per crit for 8 seconds)
6.) And a talent that reduces the amount SW recoils us for, which means we cause use it on more fights
EDIT: 7.) 5% extra spell dmg from discipline talent, (because they removed wand Spec)

If you think we did not get superbly buffed for end game PvE you are a complete idiot

And i'd give all that back for 5% VT.

[holmie]

I hate these threads.. always lots of negative, ignorant and foolish people in them.

The arguments why this spell is very good is allready here, read it and shut up please!

[jhemfl]

And i'd give all that back for 5% VT.

5% with less damage < 2% VT with more damage

They scaled it down because Shadow Priests are going to be doing more damage.

[Dentoid]

Remember to take all things in moderation. Even World of Warcraft.

[Marrakech]

5% with less damage < 2% VT with more damage

They scaled it down because Shadow Priests are going to be doing more damage.

oh Okay wow, may i see the numbers that show our relative dps increase with regards to the VT nerf?

[jhemfl]

oh Okay wow, may i see the numbers that show our relative dps increase with regards to the VT nerf?

Yeah I'll post them when I see the numbers that lead you to believe we will be 14th/15th on dps meters.

[Marrakech]

Yeah I'll post them when I see the numbers that lead you to believe we will be 14th/15th on dps meters.

Okay, well just to take a quick look at what i've seen in the VT nerf. Take mind blast for example:

1000 Mind Blast
--50 5% VT
--20 2% VT

2500 Mind Blast
-125 5% VT
--50 2% VT

We will need our mind blast to be doing more than double the damage it does now (from talents) for it to return as much mana as pre nerf.

[jhemfl]

Okay, well just to take a quick look at what i've seen in the VT nerf. Take mind blast for example:

1000 Mind Blast
--50 5% VT
--20 2% VT

2500 Mind Blast
-125 5% VT
--50 2% VT

We will need our mind blast to be doing more than double the damage it does now (from talents) for it to return as much mana as pre nerf.

Don't forget to add 10% dmg from talents, because you will always have SWP and VT up

It's basic logic, our dps increases VT decreases to scale with our damage. It's that simple...seriously.

[Marticol]

2500 Mind Blast
-125 5% VT
--50 2% VT

We will need our mind blast to be doing more than double the damage it does now (from talents) for it to return as much mana as pre nerf.

I don't know about yours, but mine already does crit double that.

[Marrakech]

Don't forget to add 10% dmg from talents, because you will always have SWP and VT up

It's basic logic, our dps increases VT decreases to scale with our damage. It's that simple...seriously.

Well no, it's not basic logic; it's a series of incredibly annoying calculations. Where does it say that they increased our damage ENOUGH for VT to be giving the same returns?

Now if anyone were to simulate the casting rotations at 70 with the BC spec and the wotlk spec we'd be able to see clearer numbers of mana output.

[Marrakech]

I don't know about yours, but mine already does crit double that.

Lol... i was clearly using 1000 damage as a simple round number so people like you could understand it. I suppose if i'd used 10,000 and 25,000 you'd come here and say ''haey how u get ur mind blast t2 do 10kay?''

EDIT: yes mine are pushing 5k too.

[jhemfl]

Well no, it's not basic logic; it's a series of incredibly annoying calculations. Where does it say that they increased our damage ENOUGH for VT to be giving the same returns?

Now if anyone were to simulate the casting rotations at 70 with the BC spec and the wotlk spec we'd be able to see clearer numbers of mana output.

I would be incredibly surprised if its not the same, WE ARE GOING TO GET AROUND +500 - 600 SPELL DAMAGE (I'm underestimating) PER CRIT FOR 8 SECONDS

[Marrakech]

I would be incredibly surprised if its not the same, WE ARE GOING TO GET AROUND +500 - 600 SPELL DAMAGE (I'm underestimating) PER CRIT FOR 8 SECONDS

At 70? or at 80? because putting it down in standard numbers wont help, if thats true at 70 then you're saying we get a 35%(ish) increase to our dps each crit for 8 seconds, if you're saying 500-600 because you assume thats how much we'll get from our 80 spirit gear then it really isnt that much, more like a 10%(ish) increase to our dps.

[jhemfl]

Think of ALL the factors, a huge one is we now only have to cast SWP 1 time per fight. Every SWP cast triggers a 1.5 GCD, If a fight lasts 6 minutes (this is in terms of PreWotLK) that means with SWP lasting 24 seconds (not including t6 set bonus) that means we will cast SWP 15 times in a fight. Now, we will only need to cast it 1, that will free up 21 seconds, which equal's 7 EXTRA MIND FLAYS, you really have no clue about whats going on.

[Marrakech]

Lets list what shadow priests are getting:

1.) 10% extra damage from SWP
2.) We only have to cast SWP 1 time in a fight
3.) A talent that Improves the Damage of Mind Flay and Mind Blast by 5% for each dot on the target (15% for UD Spriests)
4.) 2x critical strike bonus instead of 1.5x
5.) A talent that will give use +50% spirit every crit we get, and then another talent that adds spell damage equal to 30% of our spirit (So what? in WotLK probably 500-600 spell damage add on per crit for 8 seconds)
6.) And a talent that reduces the amount SW recoils us for, which means we cause use it on more fights
EDIT: 7.) 5% extra spell dmg from discipline talent, (because they removed wand Spec)

If you think we did not get superbly buffed for end game PvE you are a complete idiot

just one last point, the 10% increase damage from SWP, mind flay and mind blast; is still only a 10% increase to our damage, this would mean a 4.5% VT would be giving the same mana we do now.

you noted 500-600 spell damage in wotlk from 30% of our spirit, which looks nice on paper but when you scale it to BC stats its still only about 110-160 spell damage increase (roughly another 8% damage increase). So this would mean just over a 4% VT would be the same given the new talents as the old 5% VT with the old talents.

so we're essentially getting a 20% dps increase from our talents compared with BC talents, but a 60% nerf to VT. Now the ONLY THING that will make the new VT AS GOOD AS THE OLD ONE is if they scale intellect LESS SO than in current endgame gear (ie. less int to damage ratio on gear at 80 than 70).

There.

[ascote]

Mind you, only destro locks will go fire. Affliction and demo which will both be much more viable raid specs will continue shadow.

[jhemfl]

just one last point, the 10% increase damage from SWP, mind flay and mind blast; is still only a 10% increase to our damage, this would mean a 4.5% VT would be giving the same mana we do now.

you noted 500-600 spell damage in wotlk from 30% of our spirit, which looks nice on paper but when you scale it to BC stats its still only about 110-160 spell damage increase (roughly another 8% damage increase). So this would mean just over a 4% VT would be the same given the new talents as the old 5% VT with the old talents.

There.

Also not including the extra Mind Flays or the Double crits, or the fact that we can use SWD more often now, OR the 5% extra spell damage from Discipline. It will equal the missing 3% you are just not thinking about the big picture.


EDIT: nice edit, but still dumb