1. #1

    WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Hey guys, I was thinking abt the new changes they're bringing to WoW in WotLK, specifically, combined spell dmg and healing to a single "spell power" unit, and unified crit chance. Tell me if this makes sense, if i didnt understand it wrongly, ret pallies would actually be able to hit really big heals! of course they wont have the mana pool to sustain more than a few of them but its definitely gonna be a HUGE diff from ret heals in TBC. And correct me if facts are wrong.

    1. It is now safe to assume that there will be no such thing as healing gear in WotLK, it will be generalized as caster gear, which can be used by both healers and caster dps classes. Meaning, a shockdin would probably be wearing the same gear as a healerdin, if u get where i am coming from. What this means is, if u think abt it, if a shockdin specs into Healing Light, just focusing on pure healing numbers, he would be able to heal just as much as a healerdin can. Well maybe most of you already know this, but the next part, might surprise some.

    2. Using lvl 70 gear and with lvl 70 skills, implementing WotLK talents/changes as examples, a full s3 lamellar shockdin or healerdin would have ~ 1100 spell power and about 42% holy light crit, and a 36% flash crit. A full s3 retdin with WotLK talents would have ~ 2.2k AP, about 34% crit, and taking 30% of AP, about 733 spell power. Can you see where this is heading?

    Lemme put it into perspective, a full s3 holy pally with TBC talents at lvl 70 would probably hit 10k holy light crits. A full s3 ret pally with TBC talents would just about scrap up a 3k holy light crit. Thats to say, currently, ret pallies have a mere 30% of the healing power of holy pallies in equal gear, thats not even considering the HUGE lack of spell crit in the ret department. Comparing WotLK pallies on the other hand, 733 spell power vs 1100 sp, that equates to 66.6%, subtracting the 12% cos redins dont spec into Healing Light, u have 58.6%. Retdins in WotLK will have 58.6% of an equally geared Healerdin's healing power, a 28.6% increase from TBC. This translates to retdins healing for 5.8k crits, at a whopping 34% crit rate because of unified crit! Meaning they get the extra 60% HoT.

    Bottom Line: 30% healing power @ sub 7% crit rate vs 58.6% healing power @ a 34% crit rate. Amazing? Don't know about you guys, but i think it is. =)

  2. #2

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    and then there is the 5k mana manapool because plate gear doesn't give intellect

  3. #3

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    bummer

  4. #4

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Jesus christ Ret Paladins cry alot. You guys are by FAR the most DEFENSIVE 'melee' class there is, and you now you want good heals. Amazing.

  5. #5

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smackthat
    a full s3 holy pally with TBC talents at lvl 70 would probably hit 10k holy light crits. A full s3 ret pally with TBC talents would just about scrap up a 3k holy light crit.
    Do you even play a pala?

  6. #6

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    As I stated in other threads. Only crit RATING gives both melee/ranged/spell crit. The same goes for Hit and Haste. Crit from AGI does not give spellcrit. Melee +hit talents don't account for Spellhit.

    Do not expect your Retadin to have 30%+ spellcrit.

  7. #7

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleA
    Do you even play a pala?
    Er... yes i do? 3s4, 2s3, full guardians, roflherald, ret gear, 4t5 1s3 holy gear. Not the best gear by far but i dont feel the need to discuss my character any further. How does that relate to this discussion anyway?

    And to the rest, your replies obviously show u cant read very well.
    1. I wasnt crying about anything, my post was in fact the direct opposite, i am happy with the change.
    2. I DID state RIGHT AT THE TOP, lemme qoute " ... of course they wont have the mana pool to sustain more than a few of them...". So no shit they wont be able to get many heals off, its not like ret pallies in TBC get many heals off as it is anyway, and TBC retdins have int in their gear. Main focus is, in WotLK, ret pallies will actually be able to keep themselves alive a little more efficiently than in TBC. Don't forget, specced for it, our judgements in WotLK will refund 60% of the dmg caused, go work out some math, thats A SHITLOAD of mana recovered ever 8 seconds, much more then a retdin could ever use in 8 seconds anyway.

  8. #8

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Quote Originally Posted by rohendar
    As I stated in other threads. Only crit RATING gives both melee/ranged/spell crit. The same goes for Hit and Haste. Crit from AGI does not give spellcrit. Melee +hit talents don't account for Spellhit.

    Do not expect your Retadin to have 30%+ spellcrit.
    You do have a point, but consider how ret pallies dont have much agil to begin with, 155 at lvl 70 to be exact, which is about 6.5 crit, the rest does in fact come from crit RATING. They do however have much higher base intel, which comes to about 5% spell crit, so u lose about 2% crit, down to 32 from 34, not too big a difference.

  9. #9

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    First:

    Rumors says overhealing will not affect Sheath of Light effects, that means you will heal only 60% of the amout actually healed.

    Second:

    Retribution is the DPS paladin tree, that mean you can't heal "equal or a bit less than holy specced paladins".

    3rd:

    The main spell for heal for paladins will be Holy Shock, and it must be improved by the "Infusion of Light" talent.

    I suggest you to keep playin' your class, 'cause ofc you cannot play a paladin, else you would noticed the 3 points above.

    Sorry for my really bad english, enjoy.

  10. #10

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Quote Originally Posted by rohendar
    As I stated in other threads. Only crit RATING gives both melee/ranged/spell crit. The same goes for Hit and Haste. Crit from AGI does not give spellcrit. Melee +hit talents don't account for Spellhit.

    Do not expect your Retadin to have 30%+ spellcrit.
    plate gear isn't aimed at increasing agility, instead it uses crit rating

    therefore, pallies may well have 30% chance to crit for with spells

    i don't have a well geared pally, so i'm using my warrior as an example

    i have 28.50% chance to crit in s1/s2 quality gear
    that minus the 5% from talents(cruelty) is 23.50% chance to crit

    about the same a pally without talents will have for both spell and melee crit

    now, let us add the pally talents to it, shall we?

    Conviction: increases melee and spell critical by 5%
    Sanctified Seals: increases melee and spell critical by 3%
    =
    8%

    23.50 + 8 = 31.50%

    thus the pally, in this kind of gear, would have 31.50% spell crit

    slap in agility and intellect differences, which should be about 1%-1.5% crit difference

    and you'll have 30-30.50% crit easily


  11. #11

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordico
    First:

    Rumors says overhealing will not affect Sheath of Light effects, that means you will heal only 60% of the amout actually healed.

    Second:

    Retribution is the DPS paladin tree, that mean you can't heal "equal or a bit less than holy specced paladins".

    3rd:

    The main spell for heal for paladins will be Holy Shock, and it must be improved by the "Infusion of Light" talent.

    I suggest you to keep playin' your class, 'cause ofc you cannot play a paladin, else you would noticed the 3 points above.

    Sorry for my really bad english, enjoy.
    Good lord, the replies are starting to make less and less sense! Okay, lemme try to decipher what you just said:

    1. If 40% of your heal is overhealed, you will only recieved 60% of the amount actually healed as a HoT, is that wat you mean? Well that's understandable cos once u hit full health, u dont exactly need more healing... obviously... i was talking about healing yourself wen you are low on health.

    2. Where in my entire post did i ever say "retdins can heal as well as holydins can", did u by any chance miss out the entire section where i explained that "retdins have 58.6% of a holydin's healing power"? How does 58.6% translate to "equal or a bit less than"?

    3. Who cares about what the "main" spell will be for holy pallies? My point was that "... Main focus is, in WotLK, ret pallies will actually be able to keep themselves alive a little more efficiently than in TBC....", the focus is not how holy pallies heal.

  12. #12

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smackthat
    Good lord, the replies are starting to make less and less sense! Okay, lemme try to decipher what you just said:

    1. If 40% of your heal is overhealed, you will only recieved 60% of the amount actually healed as a HoT, is that wat you mean? Well that's understandable cos once u hit full health, u dont exactly need more healing... obviously... i was talking about healing yourself wen you are low on health.

    if you heal youself for 100 HP, sheath of light will heal you 60 HP (60% of 100 HP) over 15 secs... if you heal yourself for 100 and you lack only 80 HP you will heal 60% of 80, not 60% of 100, that's what i meant. I don't think paladins will have time to heal themselves anyway, you'll need to just use divine storm, the talent is good just 'cause it increase your spell power, so it increase all your dmg from special attacks... yeh, maybe it can help while questing, surely not in arena.




  13. #13

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Yes i say he is right on the spot with the idea that retributuion palladins will be able to heal and heal well, grant you as everyone has stated they will not have the mana pool to maintain this for any long period of time but, you finish healing grab the closest fool next to you stun them and hope for a crit command judge and boom your back in business with plenty and mana to continue dps or go back to healing and leaving residual heals(even if only a few flashes)!


  14. #14

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    QQ...

  15. #15

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    Quote Originally Posted by rohendar
    As I stated in other threads. Only crit RATING gives both melee/ranged/spell crit. The same goes for Hit and Haste. Crit from AGI does not give spellcrit. Melee +hit talents don't account for Spellhit.

    Do not expect your Retadin to have 30%+ spellcrit.
    Hey here's a hint: How much agility does ret paladin gear have?

    DING DING DING the answer is NONE. Your comments about Hit and Haste have nothing to do with this thread. Wtf does +hit have to do with healing? You're blowing smoke to cover the fact that you really don't have any point to make you're just trying to whine and it's retarded.

    MY POINT: All of our crit comes from +crit rating with a few gem & enchant exceptions, but combine this with the conviction change our spell crit will SOAR. I for one am very excited for this change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raptorg
    and then there is the 5k mana manapool because plate gear doesn't give intellect
    My paladin has 6,300 mana in full ret gear. Plenty of room to throw around an emergency heal or two not to mention ret paladins are becoming RIDICULOUSLY mana efficient in WOTLK. Plus every time i judge my 2 minute improved seal of command I'll be getting at LEAST 600 mana back for myself & two others.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmff2
    reroll holy/prot and BE useful
    Enjoy saying this while you can, it will be a stupid thing to say in WOTLK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aromit
    Jesus christ Ret Paladins cry alot. You guys are by FAR the most DEFENSIVE 'melee' class there is, and you now you want good heals. Amazing.
    Learn to read? This post is not complaining or asking for good heals, it's stating the fact that we WILL have good heals due to crit rating change, conviction talent change, and the AP -> SP change.

    Come on people, let's get excited for these awesome changes!

  16. #16

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    omg its so easy , you heal with ret gear and ret spec and if ur mana is going down , just do a 10k joc crit and the mana is refilled and there you go !

    ret is gonna be the pvp healing tree !

  17. #17
    ikillbigppl
    Guest

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    idk but i think this is a much needed change to rets. and yes rets will have 30% crit raiting with both spells and melee in s2 easly

  18. #18

    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    lol i love this...all these people who fail so miserably at trying to read :

    anyway...i cant wait for wotlk on my pala its gunna be awsome although i didnt know about there being no int on plate dps gear anymore it doesnt really matter what with the pally "evo" and the mana returning judgements we will have a fairly hard time of going oom anyway and a aoe cleave that heals 20% of dmg done is pimp imo and will make things like eots and AV alot more fun and woot we are actually viable in 5 mans and raids now well more than we used to. and all these people who are going "lolzor ret is useless respec holy and be useful nub" i will take great joy lording over in Wotlk when they start singing a different tune and actually wanting retadins over other classes due to there mana and hp returning abilities and the fact that they can actually heal a little now if needs be
    This is the point where /headdesk doesn't quite cut it... So I start using /bodywall

  19. #19
    Keyboard Turner Zerobeast's Avatar
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    Re: WotLK Retdin heals actually heal?

    They will be able to heal well but so will any caster dps that can heal i think lol but back to ret, right now its quite better than it has ever been but its getting alot of changes so i think we just have to wait and see if it gets more changes

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