What i think about the new changes.

[Deleted]

Holy tree. Well finally some love for Shockadins. The Sanctity aura is gone, instead we get a +12% increased holy damage. Im happy with it.

Prot tree. Some more threath?

Retri tree. Retri aura is useless, give us a new aura. I dont understand the last pt talent, but its still crap, costs to much mana. I still dont see any fix about retri paladins mana issues, Blizzard should fire Kalgan..

[Nuronv]

Have a read through some of the other paladin threads, the age old complaints of Ret are gone.
-Seal and Judgement System changed. (you now don't have to recast seals, you always have a utility judgement up)
-You generate mana for youself and those around you every time you Judge
-Devine storm damages several targets and heals those around you
-You have a 50% mana regen ability on a 5 minute cooldown

Retri Aura isn't useless, its a flat 2% damage increase to everyone in your party/raid

[Smackthat]

Holy tree. Well finally some love for Shockadins. The Sanctity aura is gone, instead we get a +12% increased holy damage. Im happy with it.

Prot tree. Some more threath?

Retri tree. Retri aura is useless, give us a new aura. I dont understand the last pt talent, but its still crap, costs to much mana. I still dont see any fix about retri paladins mana issues, Blizzard should fire Kalgan..

Agreed on the holy tree, its pretty much good.

The prot tree does indeed get more threat, mainly, more dmg from holy shield, seal of righteousness, and most importantly, from the touched by light talent. I'm not too familiar with prot but im guessing they should have somewhere along the lines of 800+ stam? for the well geared ones at least. That amounts to ~250 extra spell power, if i remember correctly i read somewhere that for prot pallies 1 spell power translates to ~ 0.5 threat or tps or smthing, 250 would add a nice chunk to that i think.

I believe nuronv has elaborated on the ret tree

[Nuronv]

All the trees are extremely good at the moment, i think we need a Hug Kalgan week

[Guran]

Have a read through some of the other paladin threads, the age old complaints of Ret are gone.
-Seal and Judgement System changed. (you now don't have to recast seals, you always have a utility judgement up)
-You generate mana for youself and those around you every time you Judge
-Devine storm damages several targets and heals those around you
-You have a 50% mana regen ability on a 5 minute cooldown

Retri Aura isn't useless, its a flat 2% damage increase to everyone in your party/raid

And 3% Haste

[Deleted]

I would like an better Imped Spirit attunement for protadins so they can tank in quests etc.

Ret aura should reflect all damage and should get some damage from AP.

Holy tree I LOVE IT! EITHER MORE SHOCKADIN LOVE OR DONT CHANGE IT KALGAN!

[Rawberry]

Retri tree. Retri aura is useless, give us a new aura. I dont understand the last pt talent, but its still crap, costs to much mana. I still dont see any fix about retri paladins mana issues, Blizzard should fire Kalgan..

Oh my.

Retribution Aura

Because Retribution Aura now scales with spellpower we've been seeing 250-300~ damage come of Retribution Aura in the beta, without the Improved Retribution aura talent. Next to that Vindication also procs of Retribution Aura.

The above to facts make Retribution Aura anything but useless.


Mana issues

With Judgements, say for example Judgement of Command now hitting for 1000 damage you gain 600 mana each 8 seconds. More if the Judgement crits.

The latest addition Divine Plea only solves our mana problems even further.



The Retribution tree is getting the biggest upgrade out of our three trees, and maybe even out of all the trees across the different classes.

[Nuronv]

I would have to agree with Rawberry, I play 7 different classes and of mine Paladins are getting the biggest underlying mechanic changes, probably followed by Hunters (pets completely changing).

On i side note i'm suprised by the amount of damage you are seeing off Ret Aura, I was expecting 100 max

[Admuntour]

The changes to paladins are incredible and the changes in retribution alone are magnificent.
Firstly now that judgment has been removed and there is a separate judgment spell for every seal it greatly improves utility and versatility.
Now you can activate seals that you only need to refresh every 2 mins and they don't get consumed when you judge something, heck you could be using SoC and judge wisdom to get mana back, or use SoB and judge light.
And damage from seals and judgments themselfs have tripled because of scaling being fixed.
Right now on 2090 AP my SoC judgment only does 330 damage, but with the new scaling it will do 1090, thats just great, 60% of that goes to refilling my mana pool which is even more fantastic.
Oh and thats not all with judgments, now that critical rating also affects spells, fanaticism gives 25% more crit and conviction 5% crit to spells then you are looking at insane numbers.
Again I'll use myself as an example, I have 274 crit rating, or 12% crit, judgments have a base 5% crit change, from conviction it goes to 10%, from fanaticism it goes to 35%, with crit rating it gets to 48%, with sanctified seals 51% and with heart of the crusade 54%.
Thats pure awesomeness a potential crit change of over 50% on judgments and it gives back 60% of the damage they do, even better with righteous vengeance judgment crits do 25% more damage, so its even more mana back.
And that without factoring in the extra damage from crusade and sanctified retribution.
So mana regen is 100% fixed in my opinion.
As for utility, in a 100% PVE build you could get improved BoM, 3% crit for the entire raid from heart of the crusader, 2% more damage to the raid from sanctified retribution, 3% more haste from swift retribution, great mana regen from judgment of wisdom scaling with AP, and nice party healing from divine storm.
Oh and before someone goes and tells me that holy can pick up heart of the crusader easly and nab a bit of our utility I have to say, let them, because if I judge wisdom and a holy paladin with heart of the crusade judges lets say light you could 6% crit raid wide, because now they could most likely stack, that is almost as good as bringing a moonkin and a feral druid.
As for damage, its better then ever, seals and judgments have been fixed and hammer of wrath too. Hammer of wrath also benefits from most of what judgments do, crit and talents now, it has 5% base crit, 10% with conviction, 13% with sanctified seals, 16% with heart of the crusader, 28% from my own crit rating and a wooping 50% more from sanctified wrath for a total of 78%, now that it doesn't reset swing timer any more this has definitely become a viable spell to include into your damage rotation, quite mandatory even.
And with Avenging wrath now on 2 mins from talents and damage done ignoring 50% of the armor of bosses its even better then ever.
Again I have to say the changes are just fantastic, retribution utility has gone up, damage has gone up, mana regen has been fixed.
I just can hardly wait to try paladin in WoTLK!

[smokeajay]

Yes I'm also very happy to see shockadins have SA pretty much base for them when specing.

We get a base spell called Shield of Righteousness
Slam the target with your shield, causing Holy damage equal to 200% of your block value. This spell causes a high amount of threat.
6% of base mana, 5 yd range, Instant cast, 6 sec cooldown
This should give us the needed threat with our existing spells. I wouldn't worry about theat all that much come wotlk as we do now in TBC.

Not to mention that in WoLK Strength = More Block Value than in TBC. And from the tanking gear we've seen, it all includes a high amount of strength. Also, we no longer have to rely on spell damage tanking weapons since HotR is weapon damage -> holy damage threat. Couple that with increased AP from the strength gear and I'd say we're pretty good on threat. Interesting enough, it might make picking up Reckoning for end game raiding worth it instead of just for AoE grinding and leveling given the amount of threat you'd gain during procs.

Of course, that's in theory, since I haven't tested WoLK.