Balance, Blizzard, and Ouch

[Manip]

I think it is a fair statement to say that Blizzard has done little or nothing to resolve the Balance's trees main weaknesses.

In short here are some of the big problems with Balance:
- Bad synergy / flow
- No unified design for things like mana return or DPS scaling
- Too many "important" PvE talents to possibly take
- Many weak talents
- Questionable raid utility (*assuming 1x Resto and 1x Feral Druid in the raid)

They promised yet again that Balance Druids would receive love. But in reality they've spent very little time developing this tree.

[lurked]

- Too many "important" PvE talents to possibly take
- Many weak talents

Too many important talents, but many weak talents?

Both at the same time?!

[Panoramixe]

I think it is a fair statement to say that Blizzard has done little or nothing to resolve the Balance's trees main weaknesses.

In short here are some of the big problems with Balance:
- Bad synergy / flow
- No unified design for things like mana return or DPS scaling
- Too many "important" PvE talents to possibly take
- Many weak talents
- Questionable raid utility (*assuming 1x Resto and 1x Feral Druid in the raid)

They promised yet again that Balance Druids would receive love. But in reality they've spent very little time developing this tree.

I think you didn’t do enough research.
Let’s start with our raid utility:

6% more nature/arcane damage
Moonkin aura: 5% crit for our party
Improved moonkin aura: 20% spell haste a bit less than 50% of the time.
3% hit for the entire raid
-2% hits from the boss (marginal, but there if needed)
Innervate
Combat resurrection

Then the new buffs we’ll get from other classes (guess you can call this synergy):
CoE for 10% / 13% more nature damage not confirmed yet though.
Improved scorch for 10% more arcane damage.
More stormstrike charges
Raidwide totems

Too many “important” talents and next point too many weak talents … kind of contradicting isn’t it?
The important pve talents are dependant on what the raid encounters will look like and your job in the raid. For example if there really are loads of aoe fights, you’ll take the aoe talents. But imo you can just drop all those points and just please the tanks/healers by giving a 50% attack reduction debuff by just spamming hurricane. If you leave out those aoe talents and only take 1 point eclipse and 4 points in earth and moon you can make a pve build without many issues.

And there is already a whine thread for the balance talents a bit lower.

[Loliiten]

I don't play a druid, but balance looks pretty darn awesome if you ask me, at least for PvP.. Didn't think much about PvE utility when I checked the new stuff

[Hooch]

I think you didn’t do enough research.
Let’s start with our raid utility:

6% more nature/arcane damage
Moonkin aura: 5% crit for our party
Improved moonkin aura: 20% spell haste a bit less than 50% of the time.
3% hit for the entire raid
-2% hits from the boss (marginal, but there if needed)
Innervate
Combat resurrection

Then the new buffs we’ll get from other classes (guess you can call this synergy):
CoE for 10% / 13% more nature damage not confirmed yet though.
Improved scorch for 10% more arcane damage.
More stormstrike charges
Raidwide totems

Too many “important” talents and next point too many weak talents … kind of contradicting isn’t it?
The important pve talents are dependant on what the raid encounters will look like and your job in the raid. For example if there really are loads of aoe fights, you’ll take the aoe talents. But imo you can just drop all those points and just please the tanks/healers by giving a 50% attack reduction debuff by just spamming hurricane. If you leave out those aoe talents and only take 1 point eclipse and 4 points in earth and moon you can make a pve build without many issues.

And there is already a whine thread for the balance talents a bit lower.

What he said

[Blikje]

Don't give attention whores what they want, people whining about talents currently in beta are just wasting your reading time trying to get you into a retarded discussion about things that might be completely changed in a couple of months.

[Happozai]

LF2M Moonkin Druid

[Deleted]

Talents that improve raid uti is a fail. There should be a skill that improve it. The moonkin WOTLK talent are a sad joke for a real balance druid like me. All you newly dinged balance druids that never tasted the game from 2004; you have no clue. Level 70 is not everything.

[Happozai]

Talents that improve raid uti is a fail. There should be a skill that improve it. The moonkin WOTLK talent are a sad joke for a real balance druid like me. All you newly dinged balance druids that never tasted the game from 2004; you have no clue. Level 70 is not everything.

If you want to troll unsuccessfully go to 4chan, MMO Champion forums is not the place for children like you.

[Asmo]

Panoramixe brought up a ton of good points. And to add to that and address the mana issues i'll mention that for personal use B-droods get an Omen of Clarity that procs off of spells, and Mana return on crits. That in addition to WotLK spirit buffs, the new mana regen system, and of course our mana regen talents already in existence.

[Jussie]

Yay another Doomkin whining thread, weeeee.

Stop the fucking QQ, Moonkins are strong in WotLK.

Put on some glasses.

[Edden]

Talents that improve raid uti is a fail. There should be a skill that improve it. The moonkin WOTLK talent are a sad joke for a real balance druid like me. All you newly dinged balance druids that never tasted the game from 2004; you have no clue. Level 70 is not everything.

I'm not 100% sure everyone other classes and specs have the 'talentless raid utility skill' that you desire tho.

And if there is, feral and resto should have it too (BR,Inner), and being a true moonkin or not won't matter in that case.

[Reconor]

Tbh I didn't bother to check what we supposedly miss.. There's so many good talents I don't know what to choose ;-) but one thing is certain you can make a PvE focussed build and a PvP focussed build seperatly. When you wanna do both and talent for both is where you'll get in trouble. However as it is now I've been able to make a viable PvE and a viable PvP build both with intensity and imp shapeshifting. (in PvP at expense of some damage)

The talents are fine.

Imo there are no useless talents in balance atm, they improved the previously useless talents and some are useless pve and uber pvp and vice versa. (though imo imp FF is a waste if everyone caps hit rating like they should, but when just starting out raiding it could be nice)

So trolls, eat it l2p and don't want too much. If you wanna be god roll warlock (though they did nerf the demonology godmode talent)

[Panoramixe]

Tbh I didn't bother to check what we supposedly miss.. There's so many good talents I don't know what to choose ;-) but one thing is certain you can make a PvE focussed build and a PvP focussed build seperatly. When you wanna do both and talent for both is where you'll get in trouble. However as it is now I've been able to make a viable PvE and a viable PvP build both with intensity and imp shapeshifting. (in PvP at expense of some damage)

The talents are fine.

Imo there are no useless talents in balance atm, they improved the previously useless talents and some are useless pve and uber pvp and vice versa. (though imo imp FF is a waste if everyone caps hit rating like they should, but when just starting out raiding it could be nice)

So trolls, eat it l2p and don't want too much. If you wanna be god roll warlock (though they did nerf the demonology godmode talent)

Actually if your raid can trust on having a moonkin they can gear for 3% less hit, which could possibly give a ~ 3% boost per dps and a lot more threat for tanks (they probably still won't be hitcapped).
Also dual wield will probably never be hitcapped since they need an immense amount of + hit to do that, so the talent will always be useful for them.

And I agree with the pve build vs pvp build part of your post. It is impossible to have an ideal spec for both, but this is true for every class.

[Loliiten]

Don't feed the trolls

Haven't seen Naturetauren posting a single constructive post yet, been nothing but whine so far, after my experience at least >

[Reconor]

Actually if your raid can trust on having a moonkin they can gear for 3% less hit, which could possibly give a ~ 3% boost per dps and a lot more threat for tanks (they probably still won't be hitcapped).
Also dual wield will probably never be hitcapped since they need an immense amount of + hit to do that, so the talent will always be useful for them.

And I agree with the pve build vs pvp build part of your post. It is impossible to have an ideal spec for both, but this is true for every class.

Your point about imp FF speaks truths, but about the PvE/PvP builds:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000
Good PvE build voor full dps, Brambles could be nice for tanks, but tbh its still not that great for PvE. Nature's grasp isn't neccesary in raid dps, as is celestial focus. This way you max out dps except if you assume you have 3% extra hit from imp FF, then you'll have to sacrifice damage elsewhere to get it. Owlkin frenzy is pointless in raid dps as is gale winds. We got mages for massive aoe damage in raids if needed, druids can support in that but are stronger in other points so no need to waste talents there for PvE.

Obviously if you plan in tanking as moonkin this is not the way to go :-P


http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000
Viable PvP build; sacrificing wrath of cenarius and earth and moon (which is hard to get full use of anyway with los and target switching, but depending on team setup in arena I guess you can consider it if you can spare some points elsewhere) eclipse rotation is not very controlable in PvP therefore not as usfull so replacable. These make way for Owlkin Frenzy, Gale Winds, Celestial Focus, Brambles and one point of Nature's Grasp. Full nature's grasp is nice but no need so in the end this build seems most viable in theory. Imo anyway ;-P

[Panoramixe]

For pve I'd chose:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000
PvP I won't comment on yet, too much unknown for it.

[Sans]

Talents that improve raid uti is a fail. There should be a skill that improve it. The moonkin WOTLK talent are a sad joke for a real balance druid like me. All you newly dinged balance druids that never tasted the game from 2004; you have no clue. Level 70 is not everything.

Quit living in the past.

[DiscoMoonkin]

6% more nature/arcane damage
Moonkin aura: 5% crit for our party
Improved moonkin aura: 20% spell haste a bit less than 50% of the time.
3% hit for the entire raid
-2% hits from the boss (marginal, but there if needed)
Innervate
Combat resurrection

you forgot the ability to off tank and top dps charts, hibernate and roots (hey its a cc)......

[Trollhammer]

Naturetauren you are still a joke. I can't believe you still haven't matured a little since my days on Burning Steppes.

I'm looking forward to team up with you Balance guys on my elemental shammy. Together hopefully we'll put th Mages/Locks to shame.