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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire Hanzan's Avatar
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    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by bowey
    Question IMP RET AURA ... why?
    Heard they did something to the ret aura. At least more dmg when attacked, and something about increasing strength or something i think. They did the same to the Devotion Aura, but that was something with healing. And since Sanctity Aura is removed, and the same talent that gives 2% more dmg is now on Ret Aura, i think those two pts on Imp Ret Aura is worth it

  2. #22

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by bowey
    Question IMP RET AURA ... why?
    1. sanctity aura is removed
    2. from what iv heard from beta the aura does 100-200 dmg per hit, if your in a tank grp in raids at level 80 that shud realy help the tanks get aggro.

  3. #23

  4. #24

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by bowey
    Thanks for the positive feedback on the 96% thing, i read it in another forum about the live build so I can't take the credit for it (sorry whoever actually came up with the idea)

    Question IMP RET AURA ... why?
    Rawberry told that in another post, I'll just quote it there:

    Quote Originally Posted by rawberry
    Retribution Aura

    Because Retribution Aura now scales with spellpower we've been seeing 250-300~ damage come of Retribution Aura in the beta, without the Improved Retribution aura talent. Next to that Vindication also procs of Retribution Aura.

    The above to facts make Retribution Aura anything but useless.
    Think about a rogue with slice and dice pwning you in Arena... 400 Damage for every hit he does to you? op?

  5. #25

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Aressolo
    Rawberry told that in another post, I'll just quote it there:

    Think about a rogue with slice and dice pwning you in Arena... 400 Damage for every hit he does to you? op?
    Wow .. thats awesome... now count down the days till the nerf happens cause some rogue/enhance shammy has a cry

    this looking better then ?

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...13132105201151

  6. #26

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by malkaviano


    My probable 70 go go go rush:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    Assuming u want to party, bring some party wise talents so ppl start looking for Rets for PvE.

    When you are using that build leveling from 70 to lvl 80 I assume you will use SoB... So when blizzard made paladin dps better the effect of seal will stay as it is and you will take alot of damage... I think im going to use SoC while leveling too.
    As we know paladin burst can do pretty high dmg in wotlk

    Correct me if I misunderstood.

  7. #27

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by bowey
    Wow .. thats awesome... now count down the days till the nerf happens cause some rogue/enhance shammy has a cry

    this looking better then ?

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...13132105201151
    Ermm this build is fail? yes sir.

  8. #28

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Aressolo
    With the 2.4.3. the dispel mechanic changed: those spells that were 100% immune from dispels effects will not be targeted by the dispel. This means that if you have 3/3 Sanctified Seals the Seals won't be targetted, making your buffs more vulnerable.
    That 96% is really good with the new patch in live servers, because your seals with 96% dispel resist will cover your buffs and wings.

    Btw i think this is a good PvP build:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000
    That's exactly what I said, I just also explained that 96% immunity did not mean he would have to try 96 times to dispel it, but 25, on average, could also mean he would only have to try 1, each time is independant of the other, but over 100 dispel attempts that targeted the seal 96 of them would not dispel his seal, I think it's a good idea to not give yourself 100% immunity, if dispels are his biggest worry.

    Personally, my biggest worry is mana drains/burns I see very few priests *spamming* dispel magic or mass dispel on me, and usually only expect to have my blessing of might up for the first 20-30 seconds.

    However, I do like the spec, it also gives him a chance for that dispel to target his seal, after all, and most likely get resisted. (4% chance of not getting resisted, or a 1/25th chance.)

    If I had to build something based on being dispel/purge spammed in PvP, I'd probably do something like this.

    Go Figure

  9. #29

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    I dont understand why ppl taking imp BoM when they are gonna use BoK ???

  10. #30

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    I'm taking BoK for those people in my Team who have no use for BoM (Yanno, Caster type people?)

  11. #31

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Definetly, however, Personally I wouldn't make a PvP build depending on dispels. I'd probably be looking into the fact that I can get a 9% damage reductions, on top of resillience, (Art of War, Imp RF) and look into playing around with that some.

  12. #32

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Yeah, I would take Art of War instead of 3% bonus dmg on humanoids, elementals and undeads. For BG's / arena in my opinion damage reducion and stun dispelling with Hand of Freedom is quite usefull.

  13. #33

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    For PvP I have been looking at a spec like this:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    30 seconds off HoJ CD is amazing and well worth going that deep for. As some stated earlier 2/3 Sanctified seals is smart simply because it can be a target of dispels saving your other buffs. Dispell/purge attempts to remove 2 spells, if one of them its tries to take is your seal, its more likely than not that the seal will remain (96% resist rate) and only 1 buff is going to have a true chance of getting dispelled (with only a 30% resist rate). You may lose 1% crit from that but oh well, throw that extra point in Crusade and get an additional 1% damage (to most all things) to balance that out. Most everything else in this spec is pretty obvious.

    As for PvE I have been looking at a spec such as this:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    My primary focus when thinking about this spec is raid utility. With the changes to the seals Benediction becomes almost useless and its points are better spent somewhere else. I decided to go for BoK as most of you have noticed. Let me tell you why. The days of Holy/prot as a primary healing spec are numbered, they will no longer exist when Wrath is released. All Holy pallys are going to want to go Holy/Ret for the crit and possibly Sheath of Light if that is what they want. There may or may not be a prot paladin in raid and even if there is he would be split on using BoK on himself or BoSanctuary. Why give him that conundrum when you could easily have both? A ret pally could spec down into prot a little more without losing any dps and gaining versatility (as seen with this spec). You may end up being the only one in raid with BoK so it would be awesome to have one of the best buffs in game available to you. If that is the case communicate with your fellow holy paladins and make sure one of them picks up Improved Blessing of Might on their way down the tree (though they should have already done this).

    Another slightly controversial thing I have seen is people pondering about Improved Retribution Aura. I feel that this is almost required. It bumps the damage from ret aura up from 112 to around 170ish. Someone earlier mentioned it being nice if you are in the tank group, yes that is true, but now auras are raid wide so you are always in the tank group! Why not give them a little more threat and make Ret aura phenomenal. 150 damage returned when hit, 2% increased damage for the raid and 3% mele, ranged and spell haste for everyone!

  14. #34

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Just to add something really quick, I would highly suggest picking up seals of the pure for a few reasons -

    With the combined efforts of Sheath of Light and the fact AP affects all seals and junk, SoR and SoV/C are going to be extremely viable as ret now. SoV/C moreso. In fact it almost seems like SoR might out consistantly DPS Command AND blood depending on how critting factors in. But the main reason is, I beleive you can maintain a full stack of SoV without the buff correct? If this is the case, you can switch to this and make one swing to refresh the 5 stack, then switch to whatever seal you want for 15 seconds or so, and continue on.

    I could be completely incorrect here, but I think it warrents some research. For PVP this is mostly moot as you will never really get SoV/C up consistantly and the burst of command is much better, but in PVE I beleive that SoR might out dps the other options significantly with the scaling of ATP.

  15. #35

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by klineshrike
    Just to add something really quick, I would highly suggest picking up seals of the pure for a few reasons -
    For PVP oriented players speccing Seals of the Pure is really not an option, here is why. You would need to muster 5 points and those points have to be gained by sacrificing other talents, so let's look at our options.


    In the Retribution tree we'll have 51 points soaked up already, and getting them out from there is not an option because a Retribution Paladin really needs Divine Storm, the value of having a second instant attack is priceless.

    So that leaves us the Protection tree, but there Imp. Hammer of Justice clearly beats the bonus you would get from Seals of the Pure. And for Arena's having a 30 second stun is again, priceless.


    So while Seals of the Pure might be atttractive / good enough to get, you really do not have any talentpoints for it unless you are willing to do some major sacrificing on other, much better talents.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  16. #36

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Menthorm
    I dont understand why ppl taking imp BoM when they are gonna use BoK ???
    Well if you're the only pally in the 5man it be good for the tank and i usually have guildie rogues that would rather have kings. Plus imp BOM gives more straight AP for paladins anyway and that means more spell power bonus to us.

  17. #37

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    1. Vindication is PvP only. Mobs do not have the stats that this talent affects so it has no effect on them.

    2. As far as raiding purposes go and optimizing for raid setups, you will be one of two or three Paladins, of which WILL have Kings. Don't spec for it.

    3. Benediction is still good, even better now that our Seals cost 14% of base mana. Sure we only renew them once every 2 minutes, but the Judgement effect is still there and this talent will be pretty much mandatory for raiding as we won't get the full benefit from our Judgements of the Wise talent.

    4. Seals of the Pure in the Holy tree has no use to Retribution whatsoever, unless you're a poser that uses Righteousness or Vengeance/Corruption over Command or Blood/Martyr. Come on.

    On that note, the best spec for top DPS is 0/5/64 with no points into Deflection, Vindication, Eye for an Eye, Divine Purpose, or Art of War.

  18. #38

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvert
    Well if you're the only pally in the 5man it be good for the tank and i usually have guildie rogues that would rather have kings. Plus imp BOM gives more straight AP for paladins anyway and that means more spell power bonus to us.
    I understand that, but for pvp purposes I would use kings for more stats, also kings gives ap.. not as much as might but still.
    So I think it would be waste of points to take imp blessing of might when you are going to do pvp. Sometimes instances but imo its not worth it.

  19. #39

  20. #40

    Re: Best RET Wotlk talent builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Biral
    1. Vindication is PvP only. Mobs do not have the stats that this talent affects so it has no effect on them.

    2. As far as raiding purposes go and optimizing for raid setups, you will be one of two or three Paladins, of which WILL have Kings. Don't spec for it.

    3. Benediction is still good, even better now that our Seals cost 14% of base mana. Sure we only renew them once every 2 minutes, but the Judgement effect is still there and this talent will be pretty much mandatory for raiding as we won't get the full benefit from our Judgements of the Wise talent.

    4. Seals of the Pure in the Holy tree has no use to Retribution whatsoever, unless you're a poser that uses Righteousness or Vengeance/Corruption over Command or Blood/Martyr. Come on.

    On that note, the best spec for top DPS is 0/5/64 with no points into Deflection, Vindication, Eye for an Eye, Divine Purpose, or Art of War.
    1. Correct, for the most part, Vindiction is useless in End-game Raiding.

    2. I still see 3-4 Paladins for most 25-mans 2 Holy, 1 Ret, or 2 Holy, 1 Prot and 1 Ret, and for 10-mans I see 2 Paladins as a given, in some combination.

    3. No, Benediction is not still good, it is passable, because It lowers the price of the Seals, we are now only applying once every 2 minutes, instead of every 9 seconds, and though it also lowers judgements, we were already judging Judgements every 9 seconds. So, No, for Ret, Benediction is not good, it is actually not even worth the points, HOWEVER, for Prot and Holy, it helps by giving them another Option to Imp. Might.

    4. Sort of, with SoR changes, it might be a viable Seal to use, when you can't use Seal of the Martyr/Blood, in some situations over command, we'll have to see.

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