Subtlety PvE build

[Yaner]

Hey guys, what do you think about this as PvE raiding build?
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...20350135201251

With the new Shadow Dance ability it can do pretty much DPS in raids. It also gives you many survival abilities for PvP like cheat death and wrongfully accused.

[myarluu]

wrongfully accused could be good in pve if you think about it.
just use mouse overs and never target the boss and when you pull aggro from your shadow dance burst you don't die and the tank and healers have some more time to react

[Annoying]

Still won't beat either deep combat or deep assassination. Looks like 51/20 will be the new raiding build unless murder spree is absolutely amazing.

[metalgemini]

One strong 9 sec burst every 2mins won't be able to compete with the consistancy of combat and mutilate, imho. I think Sub will do "ok" in 5mans and maybe 10s, but fall far short in 25mans over the course of a long boss fight.

[Yaner]

Well, Its not all about opening Ambushes, with Puncturing Wounds, Lethality, Opportunity and Slaughter from the shadows, Backstab makes alot of dmg, and is good for spamming ability. Serrated Blades makes Rupture even more powerful.

Think about it:
Open - Ambush
Shadowdance - 3 Ambushes
Vanish - Ambush
Preparation - Vanish - Ambush
Attack with Backstab, Rupture, Slice and Dice till Vanish or Shadowdance pop

As opener it is 6 Ambushes, and after that its still very nice dmg from backstabs and rupture.

[Valos]

Subtlety has gotten a buff id say with the lower backstab cost, easily able to snag imp backstab in assassination as well. the problem was in the ability to maintain SnD and keeping rupture up, depending on how Honor among theives is at launch may contribute. the free combo points from crits in people in your group could potentially just give you more Compo points than you need, making keeping SnD rupture up a breeze.

[Mattee]

One strong 9 sec burst every 2mins won't be able to compete with the consistancy of combat and mutilate, imho. I think Sub will do "ok" in 5mans and maybe 10s, but fall far short in 25mans over the course of a long boss fight.

Truth. Think of combat and subtlety as two runners in a marathon race. One decides to start off nice and steady to keep a constant pace throughout the whole run while the other bursts off at the start and tires as he gets further down the track. The steady and consistant guy will win because the other will get tired and slow.

Sub is good on trash and small boss fights like 5 mans because the fights never go longer then 2 minutes. In a 10/25 man raid boss fight, sub will do good at first but fall short compared to combat. Sub just cannot keep up, nor will it come live wrath.

[Caf]

Hello,

I played a subtlety dagger spec (16/0/45) for some time with an alt, including SSC and ZA raids. It is a decent spec especially for short fights, 10 man raids or boss fights where you have to move a lot and can't stay in melee range all the time.

You start a fight with shadow step + ambush, an use vanish to make additionals ambushes during the fight. threat reduction on shadow step is nice, especially ayt the start of a fight, and threat is never a problem. 35% of your dps come from white damage, 65% from abilities, finishers and poisons. You can focus on armor reduction since it increase your abilites damages. Cheat death was really good in pve before last patch and saved me a couple of times. You can get some good equipment with badges.
Cons :
- Very low combo points generation (solved with wotlk's honor among thieves talent).
- much lower dps than combat or assassination specs in long and static fights.
- scaling problems

New abilities in the subtelty tree are major improvements for this spec, and I think I will give it a try again in Wotlk.

-- Myrabël, Elune.

[Lesane]

Here's a tip: big yellow numbers and lots of crits do not equal DPS.

20/51/0 is the way to go.

[Soopr Serial]

Here's a tip: big yellow numbers and lots of crits do not equal DPS.

lier!

20/51/0 is the way to go.

I am fairly sure 46/25/5 is the way many rogues will be speccin for max dps.

[Lesane]

lier!

I am fairly sure 46/25/5 is the way many rogues will be speccin for max dps.

You'll have to wait for another expansion then until you can hit level 85.

[Omican]

Well, Its not all about opening Ambushes, with Puncturing Wounds, Lethality, Opportunity and Slaughter from the shadows, Backstab makes alot of dmg, and is good for spamming ability. Serrated Blades makes Rupture even more powerful.

Think about it:
Open - Ambush
Shadowdance - 3 Ambushes
Vanish - Ambush
Preparation - Vanish - Ambush
Attack with Backstab, Rupture, Slice and Dice till Vanish or Shadowdance pop

As opener it is 6 Ambushes, and after that its still very nice dmg from backstabs and rupture.

Where do you want to get the energy from to do all that in a row?

[1qaz2wsx]

People fail to see that they will loose out on white damage while using shadow dance for several ambushes on boss fights. The tree will be totaly worthless for DPS like we are used to. Slaugther from the shadows won't change much cause you will loose the hemo debuff while wielding daggers.

Subtlety will not be a tree suited for PvE endgame unless they change how Hemorrhage works

[Shinja]

Hello,

35% of your dps come from white damage, 65% from abilities, finishers and poisons.

Jesus, 35% of White damage, sound like Combat spec grinding level 20 mobs ;s

[Lesane]

People fail to see that they will loose out on white damage while using shadow dance for several ambushes on boss fights. The tree will be totaly worthless for DPS like we are used to. Slaugther from the shadows won't change much cause you will loose the hemo debuff while wielding daggers.

Subtlety will not be a tree suited for PvE endgame unless they change how Hemorrhage works

And even then people will just spec up to hemo and then leave subt alone when it comes to PVE.