Question Concerning the Talent Eye for an Eye

[kohakx]

I've been wondering something. Why is that 50% stipulation attached to eye for an eye?

It seems kind of pointless to me.

I mean consider a ret Paladin at 12k life, which is pretty modest. For someone to even reach 50% of that, 6k damage return, they would have to deal, 30k damage to the Paladin. It would be rediculous for a Boss, much less a player to deal that to any player unless it was supposed to be an instant death type of thing. Even then 6k to a boss is nothing. Even after this though, the damage is only around 6k, a good PVPer should have atleast 9k hp, despite that, meaning that for the PVPer to kill themselves on Eye for an Eye, they would have to deal around 45,000 damage in one hit, and if any class could do that, they would be crying out for a nerf.

If the concern is lower leveled players, let's say a Paladin with 500 life, and a PoM pyro mage crits him for 7k. that is still only about 2k damage return, and the Paladin dies, besides there is no reason a PoM pyro mage should be griefing a level 15-ish Paladin.

If anyone knows the reason for the 50% stipulation, please tell me, because I am highly intrigued as it seems completely pointless.

[drunkenclod]

When they said "total health" I was always unclear if they meant total when maxed out, or current hit points after the crit.... So, for example:

Let's say a pally just hit 70 and goes into arena with greens. He has 10k life and gets an 8k crit on him. Under the "old" forumula 30% goes back to the caster. If it's total HP then 2,400 goes back to the caster. But if his total health is now 2,000 then the damage back to the caster would only be 1k.

Similar if he was already down to say 4k health, and got a 3.5k crit. Would 1,050 go back to the caster or 150?

Frankly it never seems that the mages are dropping way down on health dispite massive damage being done, so I wonder.

[b37x]

Total Health != Current Health

Assuming 10k HP after gear and enchants, 5k is max E4E damage. And if 5k is 20%, then the paladin was crit for 25k. So you're not going to see the 50% cap being applied in pvp situations.

I think the limit is applied so that you don't have naked retadins sit-criting bosses. (Imagine Brutallus critting post-enrage).

[Rawberry]

I think the limit is applied so that you don't have naked retadins sit-criting bosses. (Imagine Brutallus critting post-enrage).

This.

[MoonMage]

brut is just a nice lil pup.
think of C'thun eye beam :P.

[b37x]

brut is just a nice lil pup.
think of C'thun eye beam :P.

Except that's a spell and I'm under the impression that in pve mobs can't crit on their spells. But yeah... C'thun would one shot himself with any kind of damage sharing ability that wasn't capped. More like eye for an eye and an eye and an eye and an eye

[kohakx]

So I guess this was a "just incase..." type of thing put in by Blizzard. Considering there is no way any player will be able to do enough damage that it will ever exceed or probably even get close to 5 times half a player's max HP.

Although I have never seen any boss crit a person for enough to be counted as any decent DPS. I mean even critting a person for 100k damage would only be around 20k return. Brutallus from what I read on Wowhead has 10,500,000HP even if he crit a naked paladin for 200k damage, that is only 40k damage to himm, that is only .3% of his life, meaning it would take 262.5 Paladins getting crit naked for 200k damage to one shot him. even if you went in with 39 paladins and 1 shaman, you would only do 1,560,000 damage to him, aproximately 1/10th of his HP. From that math, it is clear to see that the 50% life thing is just paranoia. The only reason, you would ever need that stipulation, if I am reading this right is against c'thun, seeing as if this SS is correct he can deal 10,000,000 damage to a player.

So basically it is a stipulation saying, "Just in case we make a mob crit you for 5x his own HP we're are putting this in."

[Samyaaza]

Patchwerk had some nice crits when enraged

[StormScion]

Eye for an eye scales with : Vengance , Sanctity aura , Berserk buff from battlegrounds , Avenging Wrath and can Crit.

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World of Warcraft Client Patch 2.0.7 (02/13/2007)

Any effect which benefits the victim of a critical strike will now trigger even if resilience converted the attack from a critical strike to a normal strike; this applies to melee, ranged, and spell. The affected talents, abilities, and items are: "Eye for an Eye", "Blessed Resilience", "Enrage", "Martyrdom", "Blood Craze", "Eye of the Storm", and "Bonespike Shoulder".
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Let me explain.
ATM IN LIVE

1. Mage cast frost bolt.
2. Frost bolt should crit 6k , but it doesnt couse your resiliance prevented it so he hits you for 3k.
3. Eye for an eye procs ( read patch notes above )
4. 30% of eye for an eye is 1000.
5. U had sanctity aura , wings and 3 stacks of vengance that is like 55% more dmg = 1550 dmg
And then imagine that it crits that is like 3100.

U can easy test this if u take eye for an eye and go farm water elementals. Often you will see eye for an eye proc but you just recived hit from there water bolt.

So u actualy did more dmg then you recived. Now imagine with double that numbers. Or even add berserking and i am not sure but eye for an eye might even scale with spell dmg. It is spell crit based and spell hit based tho i am quite sure on that.

My numbers might not be corect but that is how it works.
In wotlk eye will do less dmg. But the point is u can do more dmg with some luck then you recive.

[ikillbigppl]

Eye for an eye scales with : Vengance , Sanctity aura , Berserk buff from battlegrounds , Avenging Wrath and can Crit.

------------------------
World of Warcraft Client Patch 2.0.7 (02/13/2007)

Any effect which benefits the victim of a critical strike will now trigger even if resilience converted the attack from a critical strike to a normal strike; this applies to melee, ranged, and spell. The affected talents, abilities, and items are: "Eye for an Eye", "Blessed Resilience", "Enrage", "Martyrdom", "Blood Craze", "Eye of the Storm", and "Bonespike Shoulder".
------------------------

Let me explain.
ATM IN LIVE

1. Mage cast frost bolt.
2. Frost bolt should crit 6k , but it doesnt couse your resiliance prevented it so he hits you for 3k.
3. Eye for an eye procs ( read patch notes above )
4. 30% of eye for an eye is 1000.
5. U had sanctity aura , wings and 3 stacks of vengance that is like 55% more dmg = 1550 dmg
And then imagine that it crits that is like 3100.

U can easy test this if u take eye for an eye and go farm water elementals. Often you will see eye for an eye proc but you just recived hit from there water bolt.

So u actualy did more dmg then you recived. Now imagine with double that numbers. Or even add berserking and i am not sure but eye for an eye might even scale with spell dmg. It is spell crit based and spell hit based tho i am quite sure on that.

My numbers might not be corect but that is how it works.
In wotlk eye will do less dmg. But the point is u can do more dmg with some luck then you recive.

actualy its geting a masive buff as it is ALL damage now.. not just spell. u lose 10% but rogues will kill them selfs attacking u if u have ret aura on to... cant wait

[StormScion]

I know its 20% to all dmg now. Its buff ofc. It will be great for pvp , and not just retri but holy PVP healing as well.

I just wanted to say it will be a bit less dmg but still crap load of dmg back to others. Anyway it is almost allways more then 30% of dmg recived.

[kohakx]

Well thank you this makes more sense for the 50% stipulation.

In pvp though we still probably won't see it though.

Vengeance = 15%
Avenging Wrath = 20%
Crit = 150% (I believe crit is 1.5 for everything except Judgement crits)
Berserking = 30%

that is 65% addtional damage

even a 15k crit on you which I doubt anyone will be able to acomplish after the AoW nerfs

would hit back for 3000 x 1.65 = 4950 x 1.5 = 7425

If you are tough enough to survive a 15k crit, that would put you at atleast 15001 life, meaning that it still wouldn't be half your life.

more than likely Eye will be reflecting 300-500 ish damage to rogue crits, which is still nice.

So I doub't we will be seeing the 50% active in PVP, but we might see it active in PVE lol.

[StormScion]

Yea it will rearely ever happen. But remeber u dont need to get crit. U could get 9k hit. Return back 7 8k dmg theoreticaly. BUt couse u have 10k hp it will be reduced to 5k. Anyway it is pretty insignificant thing.

We should all be happy couse of huge buff to the ability.

[tangless]

I always thought this was in there to prevent gankers from getting KO'd from some low level ret pally when they hit him with a monster crit.

not like thats only fair.

[Moar Pew Pew]

Well thank you this makes more sense for the 50% stipulation.

In pvp though we still probably won't see it though.

Vengeance = 15%
Avenging Wrath = 20%
Crit = 150% (I believe crit is 1.5 for everything except Judgement crits)
Berserking = 30%

that is 65% addtional damage

even a 15k crit on you which I doubt anyone will be able to acomplish after the AoW nerfs

would hit back for 3000 x 1.65 = 4950 x 1.5 = 7425

If you are tough enough to survive a 15k crit, that would put you at atleast 15001 life, meaning that it still wouldn't be half your life.

more than likely Eye will be reflecting 300-500 ish damage to rogue crits, which is still nice.

So I doub't we will be seeing the 50% active in PVP, but we might see it active in PVE lol.

Sorry, just had to say that all spells crit for 1.5 damage, while all melee abilities/auto swings crit for 2.0. This is of course not factoring in talents.

Also, in WotLK, all Judgements deal 2.0 crit damage instead of 1.5. (Or so I've heard.)