Mana Batteries-Frost Mage or SPriest?

[Kamos]

considering shadow priests in sunwell gear level put out around 2k dps
= 1000 mp5

frost mage would just be like a mana tide totem and would not replace shadow priest

Wow. This is quite possibly THE most retarded thing i've ever read.

[Ceko]

its stupid how you guys are like "omg imba mana batts thats overpowered"
ITS BENEFICIAL TO YOUR WHOLE RAID its not like its AGAINST you class or something.. geez

this aint PvP its PvE and if it helps your raid i hav no problem with that

yes it is cuz the mages gets better than my utility but doing loadsmore dmg so i'm going to be kinda unwanted as a shadowmage so in order to get myself a raidspot will be forced to go holy . >

[Karpalo]

I did wrote that this example isnt the best one. We did have to take some undergeared members with us (vacationtime) and some others realy need to learn how to dish out more DPS.
But i have never been worse thatn 4rth in damage done in any raid, with any group. With the new WotlK changes according to Blizz Spriests will do more DPS comparing to other classes, than they do now (thats why they nerf our VT, less utility = more DPS) so i would love to se a good DPS test on Dr.boom with a frostmage and a Spriest at lvl 80 with equal gear. A wild guess is that they will do simular DPS. Our upperhand will be chackle and DoTs in the UD instances.

All the DPS tests i have seen so far is with Spriests with lvl 70 gear who in the most cases lack of spiritstats (we get more damage from spirit to in WotlK)

Just a thought.

I belive that is very possible on t4 level and maybe early t5 but after that its purely impossible.

[Karpalo]

im sure their gonna be putting in like 10 frost mages into the raid amiright? regardless of how long you've been in the guild and loyalty and all that... yeh..

If its top end guild who wants to progress i think you should give your spot to a class that is better. I repeat this one "Nobody likes deadweight."

[Doomwalker]

Ye, our main problem is our damagescaling, thats true, and to force Spriests to use glyphts to "fix" our class (MF for example, the range) is just retarded. I realy hope Blizzard create GOOD shadowpriest tier-gear in this expansion. The old T4 and T5 shadow gear was just a joke (what did Blizz thinking about?), and the T6 gear was the only thing to aim at, at least 4 part of it for the bonuses.

Like i see it when i read the Blizz post frost mages will be some sort of a offpecc for more raid utility, and will do less damage. My question is, will Frost mages and Spriests do simular DPS/damage done in WotlK at lvl 80, with equal gear. If we have the equal damage and manaregen for the raid (Spriests and Frostmages), it will be all up to our CC to decide if we get a raidspot.

When i read your posts it seems like you count on that Frostmages will do insane DPS/damage done in WotlK AND gets very good raid utility, just the oposite what Blizzard is writing.

[sijmister]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...71085&sid=2003

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...40755&sid=2000

Things are looking pretty hopeful right now, maybe Mind Flay will finally crit

[shyg]

I did wrote that this example isnt the best one. We did have to take some undergeared members with us (vacationtime) and some others realy need to learn how to dish out more DPS.
But i have never been worse thatn 4rth in damage done in any raid, with any group. With the new WotlK changes according to Blizz Spriests will do more DPS comparing to other classes, than they do now (thats why they nerf our VT, less utility = more DPS) so i would love to se a good DPS test on Dr.boom with a frostmage and a Spriest at lvl 80 with equal gear. A wild guess is that they will do simular DPS. Our upperhand will be chackle and DoTs in the UD instances.

All the DPS tests i have seen so far is with Spriests with lvl 70 gear who in the most cases lack of spiritstats (we get more damage from spirit to in WotlK)

Just a thought.

If it's a bad example why did you post it? You seem to have very little idea of the concept of scaling. Just because your damage is comparable to less-geared and worse-played players at entry level T6 does not mean priest DPS (or damage done, they are the same thing in the majority of fights) is anywhere near as close at SWP level, or most likely, all of BC raiding. T6 is where shadow dps really starts to pale in comparison, you're probably going to discover this the hard way if your guild makes it to Brutallus.

[Karpalo]

First of all i like to thank all mages out there!! <3 much love!
We could have never done this if you wouldnt have shown us the way of QQ.

[Deleted]

I hope they both become mana batteries, would help many classes that can get OOM fast (AKA Boomkins and Shammies) and well any other class that uses mana =D

Actually neither of them gets oom any faster than your average mage with proper gear.

[Baever]

First of all i like to thank all mages out there!! <3 much love!
We could have never done this if you wouldnt have shown us the way of QQ.

Where did mages say we wanted to be mana batteries?

We just want to compete with rogues/warlocks/hunters again, or more preferably, have them compete with us.

[Sonic018]

1. Mages are the best dmg dealers after Warlocks in the Endgame (if they can play their char :P )

2. Fury Warriors can deal more dmg than rogues (not mentionned here)

Why this 2 points?

Just to clarify that mages don't need any kind of scaling boost and should spend their time on gear improvement espacially concerning their haste rating.

So just stop your whining here, even if you might have read the word "mage" in the discussion topic, or at least stop writing non-sense...

Back to the discussion:

During the next days I'll try to elaborate some real stats about the effective mana regeneration of us in a raid. It's not that simple because I won't probably have a raiding chance on the beta testrealms but still it should be possible to calculate the mp5 amount of a raid buffed SP. Personnally I think the effective amount of mana regenerated by VT might not have decreased at all, since there is a DPS increase, but we will see...

Although, considering the fact that our manaregeneration should be the same as atm, I don't think, that we will be in the same DPS range as mages or warlocks etc..., because we don't benefit enough from gear improvement compared to other classes. So as it was for TBC, we will be the dmg heroes at the beginning, but loose it all in the end game taking a desperate position in dmg meters

Waiting for improvement...

[Karpalo]

Hunters losing to mages... right...

anyways mages definately do more dmg than priests with new glyph added regen more mana as well.

[Veliane]

It depends on the raid composition/encounter, since Imp. WE is a fixed % (36) and VT comes directly from damage with a 100% uptime.
Imp. WE will be better always for RUSHBOOMBOOMDPS bosses, while VT will still be better in the long run.
Keep in mind priests don't run OOM at all currently also.

[Karpalo]

Actually imp WE is always better wiith glyph unless priests get ridicilous dmg boost and keep in mind our VT aint even raid wide yet.

[greenmasheen]

i stayed full frost on the gruul fights in our guild and i was still able to pull pretty respectable numbers. it will probably come down to what type of fight and immunities because as we all know, sapphiron is immune to frost.

haste and spell dmg will be a frost mages best friend so i am guessing having a moonkin in the group + 3 arcane frost mages will be a huge dmg group with having one mostly frost mage for the mana and debuff stacking... and since elemental shamans have raidwide totems, having one of those in the raid would be a nice plus as well.

[Karpalo]

Frostfire bolt should take care of immunity fights.

[Treats]

IMO being that the new content is going in to Northrend and everything is icey, I would imagine you may see the mages have to revert back to Fire much like they did for frost in previous instances.

If this talents remains you may have a mana battery but another gimped dps spot. In contrast it would be somewhat of a role like a Spriest now as far as pure DPS. Not a pure dps class but has a lot of raid utility with damage buffs and mana regen.

This could also be a further preview in to what Blizz is trying to do as far as making it easier to make raid compositions w/o relying on one specific class to be pivotal in raids.

[Sarevokcz]

As a shaman I have to say: We can go oom? oO neither as elemental or resto I go oom with constant spamming...

elemental can go oom pretty easily, if he doesnt have SP in group, so i welcome another manabattery classes, tho frostelem regen is 3x better than manatide, which is silly imo, gief MTT trainable?

as someone pointed out, VT will be up almost 100% of time and managains are scalling with better gear of SP, WE aura does scale only with others manapool

[Sveri]

My mage can top meters atm :3. We're full clearing Black Temple.

[greenmasheen]

36% mana over 2.5 minutes is far less mana than a spriest gives, and probably even after the VT nerf. BUT if it effects that whole raid and not just the group it is freakishly op.

36% over 1 minute actually... the other 1.4 minutes nothing happens.

and you are also forgetting that you have frost snap as well... so for heavy dps burns or just when mana is being consumed at a rapid rate, you can just frost snap right away and get 72% of your mana back and then another 1.4 minutes and its up again.