shiny new skills but what will actually help?

[Xylia]

i've only been level 70 a few days and managed to make stormherald and bg a bit, but what really sticks out as a paladin is

-no spell interrupt, people stand there casting in your face

-no way to catch people running away properly, pursuit of justice is a joke when everyone gets running speed, lack of a real snare, you get stunned or snared and trying to catch enemy with only 7% extra speed is horrible



-mana problems trying to kill healers, although this will be fixed with the new judgements of the wise hopefully



but in regard to the other 2 problems, how are they holding out in the beta? everyones getting nock backs and pulls, or already have a way to reach melee like warrior and death knights, and what they want us to use repentance and run to the enemy?

[Thimpey]

? ? ? go holy. Nobody wants a retnub

[Gerbill]

As it is now the damage retribution Paladins deal is a lot higher than in live. because now a lot of abilities scale with Attack Power like your Judgements.

Mana problems aren't there anymore, 60% of your judgement damage will be regained in mana, this pretty much solves our mana problems. And we will get an evocation type spell to regain mana aswel, though this is more for holy paladins since I doubt retribution will need that while dpsing.

We do not get a charge/death grip/sprint and we are not getting an interrupt either. We do ofcourse keep our stun and repentance.. which do count as interrupts only not like Pummel/kick. Repentance now lasts for 1 minute in pve and 10 seconds in pvp, meaning you get a longer and decent CC in pve/pvp or a chance to throw an off-heal in pvp.
The heals as retribution in Beta are nearly twice as high as they are in Live at level 70. This is due to the talent Sheath of Light.

[Xylia]

bollocks, everyones spell interrupts are on like 10 second cooldowns, hammer of justice will still be on global cooldown on the expansion so even blizz doesn't think it's a spell interrupt, need to use hoj and repentance to even catch people you fool, you don't know what a spell interrupt is then just shut up go play your auto attack mace stun warrior

[Nazumi]

I would count Repetance and Hammer of Justice a spell interrupt if both would lock the spell school of the target when it was stunned while casting BUT thats not the case and its not going to happen in wrath either because its just stupid...

[Voidseeker]

- let them cast, OR use HoJ / Repentence to stop spell casting: that is all it should be used for anyway with casters in the other team.

- There are THREE different judgments for a REASON. Why do you think Judgement of JUSTICE was one of those three? USE IT, and then run up and hit them. If you are not up to speed on it: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=53407 it limits them to 100% movement speed REGARDLESS of what speed increases they have. And it DOES DAMAGE to boot.

- There is no such thing as "mana issues" with Judgements of the Wise fully talented. Once they tune damage it is possible that there could be issues, at which point we should push for the % to be raised to 25%/50%/75% on the talent if they nerf DPS a lot.


Plus, if you go 32 / 8 / 31 or something along those lines you will have the option of HS along with your other attacks to inflict damage. And a HS crit followed by a Judgement of Justice crit is no small amount of damage, even if the target has not been stunned.


{EDIT} something like this: (barring any changes to talents)

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...03030100000000

[Glyph]

I would say the main disadvantage playing a ret paladin in pvp is a reliable spell stop. Both repetence and hoj can be resisted. As for catching people, judgement of justice keeps players down to 100% move speed, pursuit takes you to 115% you can catch anyone.

Your complaint about running out of mana vs healer is because you're over eager to kill healers and your spec could be potentially at fault. If healers aren't on the offensive just sit back and soc procs and white damage them. If they go offensive just stay defensive saving your mana for burst when they start getting low. Priest is definitely your hardest fight but ret pallies destroy resto druids. There may be percieved weaknesses to ret pallies but you have to change your thinking and play style. I have a ret pally s3 geared, stopped playing him due to boredom when s4 came out but regardless I found it a lot of fun to 1v1 people as it's a way to learn what you can do and not do. Their damage is burst and unreliable but it's also a steady stream. If you play conserve mana style you'll do better on beating down your opponent.

my pvp spec I usually run the standard prot/ret spec but just to highlight some points. Anticipation gives you a bit more parry/dodge. Imp HoJ is necessary in my books as it is great for catching healers when they're low on health. Kings is better than might in pvp and benediction is extremely helpful for your mana. You will rarely judge seal of crusade so points in parry are smarter. 1 point in vindication is one more debuff to remove and gives a nice debuff to hp on most toons. I don't take imp sanct aura because 2% more parry is far more reaching than 2% more damage unless I'm doing 5's arena then 2% damage for team is better (Just take 2 points from parry). And sanctified judgement over divine purpose because with lots of resilence crits already do nerfed damage so I'd rather be mana efficient over taking a tiny bit less damage for 3 points.

I think ret is strong, ya we have a few weaknesses but every class does. Learn to work with them and you'll have great success.

[Abyssos]

I would say the main disadvantage playing a ret paladin in pvp is a reliable spell stop. Both repetence and hoj can be resisted. As for catching people, judgement of justice keeps players down to 100% move speed, pursuit takes you to 115% you can catch anyone.

Your complaint about running out of mana vs healer is because you're over eager to kill healers and your spec could be potentially at fault. If healers aren't on the offensive just sit back and soc procs and white damage them. If they go offensive just stay defensive saving your mana for burst when they start getting low. Priest is definitely your hardest fight but ret pallies destroy resto druids. There may be percieved weaknesses to ret pallies but you have to change your thinking and play style. I have a ret pally s3 geared, stopped playing him due to boredom when s4 came out but regardless I found it a lot of fun to 1v1 people as it's a way to learn what you can do and not do. Their damage is burst and unreliable but it's also a steady stream. If you play conserve mana style you'll do better on beating down your opponent.

my pvp spec I usually run the standard prot/ret spec but just to highlight some points. Anticipation gives you a bit more parry/dodge. Imp HoJ is necessary in my books as it is great for catching healers when they're low on health. Kings is better than might in pvp and benediction is extremely helpful for your mana. You will rarely judge seal of crusade so points in parry are smarter. 1 point in vindication is one more debuff to remove and gives a nice debuff to hp on most toons. I don't take imp sanct aura because 2% more parry is far more reaching than 2% more damage unless I'm doing 5's arena then 2% damage for team is better (Just take 2 points from parry). And sanctified judgement over divine purpose because with lots of resilence crits already do nerfed damage so I'd rather be mana efficient over taking a tiny bit less damage for 3 points.

I think ret is strong, ya we have a few weaknesses but every class does. Learn to work with them and you'll have great success.

Having 2/3 in Sanctified Seals is enough if you have the Stoicism in the prot tree (gives you the last 30% you need) and 2% more armor is more useful in my eyes then 2 extra defense.

[Sithlord87m]

-no spell interrupt, people stand there casting in your face

-no way to catch people running away properly, pursuit of justice is a joke when everyone gets running speed, lack of a real snare, you get stunned or snared and trying to catch enemy with only 7% extra speed is horrible



-mana problems trying to kill healers, although this will be fixed with the new judgements of the wise hopefully

WTF are you talking about?

You can perfectly stun and incapacitate them to interupt, dont run blind into them and stun the moment you reach 'em. And it's not like counterspell doesnt get resisted on my mage.

Pursuit of justice is not a joke, together with BoF jou reach them easily and with JoJ they arent that fast.
I have the Lionheart executioner, but you with your Stunherald have even another tool to hold them/interrupt them.

I don't have any mana problems with my pala, i can imagine you spam conc. all time...

[Gerbill]

Having 2/3 in Sanctified Seals is enough if you have the Stoicism in the prot tree (gives you the last 30% you need) and 2% more armor is more useful in my eyes then 2 extra defense.

Not anymore. Blizzard made a chance to Stoicism for the upcoming beta build to reduce the chance your spells will be resisted by 10/20/30%. So it no longer protects your spells from dispel, it's the oposite.

[Abyssos]

Not anymore. Blizzard made a chance to Stoicism for the upcoming beta build to reduce the chance your spells will be resisted by 10/20/30%. So it no longer protects your spells from dispel, it's the oposite.

I replied on his current TBC build that he linked.

To bad in wotlk they changed it because I liked being able to be "smart" and save 1 talent point :P
When will they change it, because it cant see the change yet in wowheads or MMO's talent calc.

[Verden Odela]

? ? ? go holy. Nobody wants a retnub

[Loliiten]

hammer of justice will still be on global cooldown on the expansion so even blizz doesn't think it's a spell interrupt, need to use hoj and repentance to even catch people you fool, you don't know what a spell interrupt is then just shut up go play your auto attack mace stun warrior

WAAH! my eartshock is useless because it's on GCD :'(

[Venara]

-mana problems trying to kill healers, although this will be fixed with the new judgements of the wise hopefully

This won't be a problem anymore. I'm playing T6 Holy Priest on live servers and i always managed to kill every paladin that tried to kill me. Ret, Holy, Prot - no problem. Just manaburn them into oblivion.

However on beta servers Ret pallys are just OP. I get stunlock owned in about 4-6 seconds from 10k life to 0 (with Renew, PoM and Shield active before the fight starts - which gives me ~ 15k life). And those are not T6 Ret pallys, they wear green shit oO

[Xylia]

Loliiten, earth shock also hits like 1k non crits and can be used every 6 or 5 seconds, hammer of justice on the other hand has a cooldown of 1 minute untalented, and so has repentance, if i were to use both i could:

-6 second stun, i can do damage and he can't heal
-repentance isn't a stun so will break on damage, but he can't heal for 1-6 seconds but i can't damage him if i want him to stop

you can earth shock 10-12 spells in one minute which it takes for the cooldowns to come back on paladin "interrupt"

also, pummel+kick deal no damage and have 10 second cooldowns which is almost double an earth shock

[wolfpaq777]

WTF are you talking about?

You can perfectly stun and incapacitate them to interupt, dont run blind into them and stun the moment you reach 'em. And it's not like counterspell doesnt get resisted on my mage.

Pursuit of justice is not a joke, together with BoF jou reach them easily and with JoJ they arent that fast.
I have the Lionheart executioner, but you with your Stunherald have even another tool to hold them/interrupt them.

I don't have any mana problems with my pala, i can imagine you spam conc. all time...

if you don't have mana problems on your ret paladin then you aren't playing right. Mana issues are a primary concern of our class spec at the moment, which fortunately blizzard is fixing with the "judgement no longer consumes seal" change and "judgements of the wise" change. 2 minute seals are nice too, but the previously mentioned changes are the primary fixes to this problem.

I can only imagine the reason that you do not have mana problems is that you are not judging/resealing command as soon as you can. Well you are doing it wrong. Yes, you are supposed to judge command every 8 seconds and then recast the seal. Don't believe me? Look at the best retribution librams in the game. None of them are passive +bonus, they are all "procs on judgments", which means to get max use you better damn well be judging every time the cooldown is up.

Also your whole "JoJ them haha it's easy" argument is retarded because guess what the range on judgements are? 10 yards. If I can get within 10 yards of them guess what, I'm not having problems catching them am I?

Finally, claiming that the stun on stormherald is a tool to interrupt casters is just laughable. The thing stuns maybe once every 20 fights or so, and you have no way of guaranteeing that it will proc during the middle of a cast time. I just use it because it's got great stats and a nice, slow attack speed and the few times it does proc, it is nice (although, because I judge every cooldown like you are supposed to, I am usually not able to take advantage of it).

In conclusion, I normally don't flame but your post was so full of fail that I couldn't help it. Thank god clueless people like you are not in charge of ret paladin expansion changes.

p.s. using 1 minute cooldowns for interrupts is NOT at all a "perfect" interrupt. You are ridiculous. Here's a hint since you seem a little slow: you can't trinket out of a legitimate spell interrupt.