WoTLK Retribution Paladins... how are they really?

[Ryoten]

I know we got a revamp and new goodies live divine storm. However im a little hesitant to buy the WoTLK when it comes out. We all had out hopes and dreams up when TBC went live with the improvements to ret such as CS. However the biggest problem was all the other classes got buffed as well which meant we didn't really improve. Compared to what other classes have at end game, does anyone know how we stack up, or is this just TBC all over again for our class?

[JTWrenn]

Just wondering...do you think Pallys are underpowered right now?

[Ryoten]

Just wondering...do you think Pallys are underpowered right now?

I think they're average. However i think that ret talent from WotLK "sheath of light" should have been added a long time ago. HoW sucks, Consecrate sucks, JoC sucks. And it all stems from lack of +SD.

[Yvert]

I think they're average. However i think that ret talent from WotLK "sheath of light" should have been added a long time ago. HoW sucks, Consecrate sucks, JoC sucks. And it all stems from lack of +SD.

Even when spell damage was used by us i NEVER used it and i did perfectly fine. Not sure what you were expecting.

[Samiel]

I think they're average. However i think that ret talent from WotLK "sheath of light" should have been added a long time ago. HoW sucks, Consecrate sucks, JoC sucks. And it all stems from lack of +SD.

Actually, HoW sucks currently, because it resets swing timer, meaning that there is *no* way in hell to make up for lost DPS by including that in a lower than 20% DPS cycle.

Our lack of DPS does not stem from lack of SD, it stems from Blizzards, throughout TBC's, lack of direction and ideas with the Retribution Paladin, and the Retribution Tree and Itemization

[Accalon]

I dont understand why you're saying this. Paladins have always been the most useful class in a ton of setups. Sure they are not the best 2v2 healer, but they do run well with Rogues. Sure they arnt the best 3v3 healer, but they run extremely well with another healer in 3v3. They are above par, if not the best 5v5 healer. Ret can put out sick damage in 2v2, yes i have seen multiple gladiator retpal+mage teams... Cleave is good in 3v3 and 5v5 also. Ret Pallys can pump the deeps in raids, prot pallys are very good tanks and needed in multiple fights, holy paladins are the best tank healer in the game. I dont understand why people believe their class needs to be able to do everything in this game. A ton of classes lack, but why should paladins excel in everything?

[Mimir]

The subject is Retribution viability, not prot and not holy. Retribution has horrible mana efficiency, no spell damage, very proc based damage which is unpredictable, and performing well in 2v2 is worlds different from being able to perform in 5v5 PvP which is what the game is supposed to be balanced around in the first place.
People believe a paladin should be able to perform well in every spec, which is a reasonable request if you specialize in a certain tree. You aren't awsome as a healer if you're ret or prot, and you aren't a good tank if you're ret or holy, you just want to perform well in whatever tree you invest the majority of your points in.
These issues are being adressed in WotLK which is a winning situation for everyone since arena games will have a new contender to build strategies around.

[Gaudion]

I dont understand why you're saying this. Paladins have always been the most useful class in a ton of setups. Sure they are not the best 2v2 healer, but they do run well with Rogues. Sure they arnt the best 3v3 healer, but they run extremely well with another healer in 3v3. They are above par, if not the best 5v5 healer. Ret can put out sick damage in 2v2, yes i have seen multiple gladiator retpal+mage teams... Cleave is good in 3v3 and 5v5 also. Ret Pallys can pump the deeps in raids, prot pallys are very good tanks and needed in multiple fights, holy paladins are the best tank healer in the game. I dont understand why people believe their class needs to be able to do everything in this game. A ton of classes lack, but why should paladins excel in everything?

Did you even read the title of this thread?

[PsychoLCrazy]

Personally no they are not underpowered atm. They need a way to combat healers imo and that's all they need.
The dps right now is impressive for the spec of the class and finally after so long it looks like Ret paladins can start off raiding in blues and greens like most class specs did in TBC. As for pvp i have mixed feeling about it and taking into consideration the 2 game mechanics being changed. It doesn't look like healing will be getting nerfed at all. In fact if anything Healing class specs are getting major buffs all around. For a paladin this is devastating for us to fight them. With no way of really combating them with 1 stun and 1 cc i don't think this is enough.

Other then those 2 aspect of the talent tree i am overall happy with what i am seeing.

So give them a Mortal Strike and call them warriors with heals? please, there are things you shouldn't be able to do, else you'llbe overshadowing warriors, who still bneed to be good at something

[confessor]

Every single issue and grievence a ret paladin has has been answered. Still lack a cast interrupt and MS but have infinite mana (we are now the melee shadow priest), a much much more streamlined seal system, whirlwind, the abilitity to actually heal (I crit for over 9k on holy light on test), all of our abilities scale with attack power, HoW does 4k damage and doesn't reset swing timer, it's truly an amazing revamp from blizzard. If I ever met the paladin dev on the street and hug him until he cried. Trust me, wotlk is 50% better than classic, and 200% better than TBC, buy it.

[Mimir]

Every single issue and grievence a ret paladin has has been answered. Still lack a cast interrupt and MS but have infinite mana (we are now the melee shadow priest), a much much more streamlined seal system, whirlwind, the abilitity to actually heal (I crit for over 9k on holy light on test), all of our abilities scale with attack power, HoW does 4k damage and doesn't reset swing timer, it's truly an amazing revamp from blizzard. If I ever met the paladin dev on the street and hug him until he cried. Trust me, wotlk is 50% better than classic, and 200% better than TBC, buy it.

It's a Blizzard sales rep trying to get into our heads! They're going to release the expansion and then nerf all the hybrids! CONSPIRACY!
In all seriousness though with the changes to Retribution, if they stick, for the first time since the game came out, Ret will be desired in groups and raids for what it can bring from it's spec instead of what it brings from it's base spell set.

[annomander999]

watch some footage on youtube... they pown, expect a nerf if blizz keep them as powered as this within a patch or so

a warrior duelled a paladin... bc would mean paladin powned, but the reti paladin took something like 5-10% damage, and raped the warrior

[mulinexman]

How they are? No idea, don't really care. How will they be? A supporting DPS hybrid-class. Live with it or reroll.

[confessor]

Our attacks / judgements

HoJ and Repentance.

Well I mean that is nothing new by any means, it is the same we had in TBC right?

Well yes, however we faced a big problem with that. Not being able to keep up with the heals and getting mana burned to hell.

They fixed this via seals of the wise and improved judgement damage. Even with all the changes if I pop my cooldowns and judge command on a stunned target I can hit 10,000 damage on a crit. Thats 6,000 mana back! Even smaller more reasonable numbers like 3-5k will restor half your mana. Also with the revamped seal/judge system you can have command up and judge wisdom, still doing command damage and putting the wisdom debuff on the target, wich got a strong boost, think mine on beta restores over 350 mana (I believe it is scaled off attack power, will test tonight).

And if you delve into the patch notes, you will see there is a glyph being added to give paladins spell interrupt on exorcism. Hopefully this will work on non-undead targets and give us a 30second cooldown kick at least.

[confessor]

blah blah blah, quit reading almost right away when you started blathering about healing as ret on live. Please note this thread is about wotlk paladins, not for whining about live paladins.

[mrchee]

It completely boggles me that people want ret to be good DPS and PvP DPS. The paladin is a healing/tanking hybrid, like the warrior is a dps/tanking hybrid. It simply isnt anywhere in the class description nor the lore for a paladin/cleric class to do good DPS, except against undead and demons

[Soopr Serial]

It completely boggles me that people want ret to be good DPS and PvP DPS. The paladin is a healing/tanking hybrid, like the warrior is a dps/tanking hybrid. It simply isnt anywhere in the class description nor the lore for a paladin/cleric class to do good DPS, except against undead and demons

Go back to your RP server please, the theorycrafters are talking about srs bsnss.

[Eleena]

It completely boggles me that people want ret to be good DPS and PvP DPS. The paladin is a healing/tanking hybrid, like the warrior is a dps/tanking hybrid. It simply isnt anywhere in the class description nor the lore for a paladin/cleric class to do good DPS, except against undead and demons

using this logic warriors should even suck in pvp, or in pve as dps. Come on, you don't need to be a paladin to see that all class trees should be eligible atleast in pve.

About the Paladin/cleric class. Last time I checked they had pretty amazing dps against UD's and decent dps against anything else.

Currently thats not entirely so, and I'm not even a paladin and can see this...

[kohakx]

It completely boggles me that people want ret to be good DPS and PvP DPS. The paladin is a healing/tanking hybrid, like the warrior is a dps/tanking hybrid. It simply isnt anywhere in the class description nor the lore for a paladin/cleric class to do good DPS, except against undead and demons

Part of the reason people want Ret to be viable, everywhere is because of lore. If you go play WC3, you don't see Arthas or Uther standing back healing. They actually only had 2 beneficial spells, Holy Shock and Resurrection, and Holy Shock was a pretty weak healing spell. What you saw them doing was being on the front lines, with a huge-ass hammer, smashing things. They would smash things with their hammer, and ressurect their fallen comrades. That is an iconic paladin of WC, and that is why Ret is important. The Iconic Paladin isn't a tanking/healing hybrid. It is a DPS/Tanking/Healing hybrid. Just like Druids are a DPS/Tanking/Healing hybrid.

[Brasko]

To me a Hybrid is a class that is great at what he is doing when he spends points into the talent tree he picks and is viable with that tree in any content of the game. However if needed he can take on his other 2 aspects that makes him a hybrid and is viable to a point with those on demand spell/abilities and not rendered the Paladin almost useless when he does. r the last 4 years of changes you would have to be a idiot not to think that Ret shouldn't be 1 of the highest dpsing specs in the game.

lolwut?

So, basically... you want to be able to spec retribution and deal as much DPS as a pure class, but still be able to tank and heal when you need to.

Yeah, see, here's the problem: what Blizzard thinks a hybrid should be is what a hybrid should be, and that's a class capable of holding its own in any of its playstyles without being the best or on par with the best - so-called pure classes, in terms of DPS - at it (situationally, i.e. tanking). What you want retribution to be able to do is DPS as well as any DPS-only class (classes that can't provide some of the best buffs in the game, heal, tank, resurrect other players, etc., etc., etc.), but oh, right, you also provide all of the aforementioned things, and can tank and heal when need be.