Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Júxtapose
    What would you classify chain heal as then? It does effect people within an area of effect imo.
    aoe spells dont require a target.

    circle of healing is the only exception.

  2. #22

    Re: Death of the priest?

    You do realize (I Hope) that the raidwide VT is a BUFF BUFF BUFF to shadowpriests.

    NOW
    1 Priest provides mana = 5% of damage to 5 players. or 25% of their damage

    WotLK
    1 Priest provides mana = 3(2.5)% of damage to 15-20 players. or 37.5% of their damage in worst case

    And the mana regen is not a buff, its just mana regen, meaning that it stacks. Shadow priests are GAINING AoE also.

    All that said however. If blizzard does not make sure that Mindflay(shadow priests only spammable spell) has an appropriate spellpower bonus, and can use crit. Then no matter how well they start they will scale worse and eventually be surpassed.

  3. #23

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Just in response to some of the replies.
    First thanks guy -really appreciate the feedback.

    For Discipline priest:
    I'm very excited about the changes for discipline priests. I've never played full discipline but the changes mean that they will have great viability in both PVE and PVP – and I think that raids will really benefit greatly from having a discipline priest.

    Its really the shadow and holy specs that have me concerned.

    Btw, Wowinsider has a few articles on priests that have been testing the WotLK content.

    Like Nogi said, check the new spells and talents that other classes are getting. But Pallies will have group heals, their flash heals are awesome, its harder for them to get OOM and now their greater heal does quite a bit more healing than the biggest priest heal. So to review: pallies have group heals, are more mana efficient, have better medium heals (flash heals) and a more potent greater heal. And add to that the great buffs they have (as opposed to a full holy priest who will generally have fort). Yes priest are great healers now – but look at what holy priest are getting compared to the other healing classes for WotLK. A priest would seem to be very generic healer with no particular strengths (ie: no chain heals, mana efficiency,etc..) while the other classes are also becoming more generic while keeping their particular strengths. Am I missing something here?

    Again, Disc priests in a raid sound great. But holy priests? .... meh

    Again, yes I like the fact that SPs will do more damage - however, you're comparing that to the damage that we do now. Check out what arcane mages are getting in WotLK. You may also want to check out some other classes. What I’m trying to say is that regardless of an SPs damage (upgrade or no), we’ll in all probability never be able to meet the damage of other dps classes that are similarly geared and competent (check out the stats for Sunwell). It boils down to the fact that SPs are a utility class –sure we dps but our reason for being is to support the other classes (health, mana, misery…) and mana regen is the biggest reason for having SPs. So depending on what Blizz does or doesn’t do – it could leave SPs in a position where the mana regen isn’t as important or as good as it might need to be and where the damage we do is close to the bottom of the charts.

    Someone mentioned that SPs are the only class that give continuous mana regen. That’s true. But you don’t need continuous mana regen in most instances (other than Sunwell) – there are frost mages that I know that don’t run out of mana or even take mana pots (yes you need the gear/spec to do this but its possible). Unless raid content is going to be as intensive as Sunwell from a mana perspective – it would seem that a raid will have enough mana regen without a SP (this is reinforced Blizz’s comments about not needing any class). So we come back to my original point which is that if SPs aren’t needed for mana regen, they do less damage than other classes, health regen may be somewhat useful and we have misery – Is this really enough to justify having a SP in a raid rather than a Shammy, a Boomkin, a frost mage, etc… I’m not convinced. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t like to have or play as a shadow priest in a raid. I’m just saying that our viability vs other classes has been greatly reduced.


    Someone said that they think Blizz will make more adjustments to our class. Personally, I’m not holding my breath (not to sound negative). Sure there might be some minor changes but nothing major. I say this for two reasons: 1) Look at SPs now –there have been some serious scaling issues for a while 2) Blizz has said that they are very happy with the way priests have worked out in the WotLK and they aren’t anticipating any changes other than the mana regen.


    My priest will remain my main toon (priest power ;D ). I'm not panicking or saying that the world will end. I'm just saying that I'm very concerned about the holy and shadow specs and their relevance in WotLK.

    I’m not asking to outdps locks or always be at the top of the healing meter. I’m just hoping that we are able as shadow priests or holy priests to bring something to the table when it comes to instances (other than shackle).

    Thanks for all the great feedback.

  4. #24

    Re: Death of the priest?

    You don't know anything about what kind of gear priests will get. A HUGE part of your character's power comes from what he or she is wearing, which is precisely why people want to continue to raid and get better and better gear. So without knowing how they tune your gear, you shouldn't be concerned quite yet.

    What if they tune the gear so priests generally have a higher +heal than any other class? Say 400 more +healing compared to other healers at the same gear level. That wouldn't be too bad, wouldn't it?

    Plus we know for fact that there's going to be a ton of undeads all over the place in WotLK, so I don't think your desirability is any risk as you have the best CC against them.

    Also, we still don't clearly know how the encounters will go in Wrath. The way bosses hit, how often they hit, along with the rest of the mechanics and gear available to tanks will dictate what kind of healers you would want. As the OP is saying, priests have always been the backbone of healing but you can't quite put your finger on where they excel by a large margin. I think this will remain to be their role. Plus if anything, you should be happy your class isn't all about FoH spammage!


    PS. I agree with a few posters up. "Well over 2k DPS" is a bit of a stretch of shadow priests.

  5. #25

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Hmm... if cloth gear for priests (not talking specific tier) had +400 healing or bigger difference from leather, mail and plate -I'm sure that some pallies, druids and shammies would probably have a bit of cloth. Its not like we didnt have some crazy pallies pre-bc that didnt wear some cloth items.

    If my reason for being is for a shackle... *bawls his eyes out*

    Its true there is a lot that we don't know about WotLK. I'm talking about what we do know though. But yes, hell may freeze over and Blizz may make more substantial changes to priests (kidding) (I do hope you're right and that I'm wrong and that priests will remain beloved by all)

  6. #26

    Re: Death of the priest?

    this might be slightly off topic but i cringe everytime somebody posts a THIS IS THE DEATH OF MY CLASS topic..

    the mages did it, the paladins did it, the druids did it, the warriors did it.. now the priests are doing it..

    so stop making them untill WOTLK is released.. thanks

    /sigh
    It's just a game.

  7. #27

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Relax Amgyn.

    Also it might help to read through the post first. I hear foot in mouth desease is contagious so get yourself checked out.

    I don't think anyone is saying OMG - I'm not playing my priest anymore or OMG thats it I quit Wow or OMG its the end of the world.

    And in fact if you read what was posted you'd see that people are still going to play their priest (myself included) and that there are a couple of us that are very happy with the way discipline priests are going to be. (side note: anyone interested in discipline priests should check out an article in Wowinsider about a discipline priest who ran two of the instances in WotLK and had a blast)

    We're just talking about (or most of us are talking about) the viability of Holy and Shadow priests.

    So maybe take two aspirin and call me in the morning after you read what people have been writing before you *sigh* and dribble all over the forum.

    So far I've really enjoyed the replies and it's nice to get other the opinion of other priests.


  8. #28

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Being a priest (shadowspecced) since Wow came out (even raided pre TBC as shadow) I can not say much about the holy and discipline trees.

    The so called nerf of VT is not a nerf at all. Blizzard has already let us know that with the huge amounts of spelldmg, now called spellpower, the 5% mana return is just to much to walk around with. So, Blizzard decided to nerf VT at first to 2.5% instead of the 5% we have now and with testing going around until level 77 or so it seems the mana return we do was still to high. Therefore Blizzard reduced it slightly more to 2%. Atm this should be perfect and just think of us nuke the crap out of you with the new Tier sets :P.

    As a SP we finally get an Aoe, but i am deeply dissapointed by this seeing it will be a channeled spell instead of something similar like flamestrike as the mages have.

    Another huge dissapointment is that SP get no new spells which they can use (next to 1 crappy AOE) as shd or even a disc dmg spell for the cd stuff. All the other casters get superspells like frostfirebolt or possible spells through the new talents. And what do we get? Dispersion, in my eyes 1 of the most useless spells so far. I hardly ever have problems with mana or hp in raids seeing i always have VT up and am always in a raid team with a shaman to boost my dmg and mana totem for me ^^. As Sp we still have a huge knockback effect from SWeath which will result in about the same dmg as we have now, even with the talents to reduce the dmg.

    At least we can now have 55% less threat in total in the Shadow tree so we have less problems with aggro and we can finally use some usefull enchants on cloak than the crappy subtlety for once. :P

    Well, enough whining about the lack of proper boosts to SP, I will always stay a shadow priest as a main and will love it no matter what.

  9. #29

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Hey Anglarana,
    Blizz also said something interesting that in WotLK SPs werent running out of mana (in fact they were almost always topped up).
    I love being an SP too. And I do like the extra Spell dmg and so of the other things are pretty nice too (less threat! woot woot!).

  10. #30

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Thats what i meant with the nerf from 2.5 to 2% seeing SP were always full of mana ;P now they arent anymore. now we end a boss fight with 99% ^^ (hopefully)

  11. #31

    Re: Death of the priest?

    dispersion is mostly a pvp talent, to help improve shadow priest's survivability in pvp. i understand the qq on it not been particularly useful pve wise or rather...a little bit situational, but all blizzard did is to give us what we asked for. go back to the official wow priest forum, under the "suggestion" topic, most of the posts listed there on shadow priests were about pvp survivability and damage scaling, so they end up giving us a little pain suppression sort of bubble for the survival part, and some additional points to increase our damage. I guess it's just the way blizzard do things.

    Pre-BC: gods in pvp, pve's blah...
    BC: easy kill in pvp, 1-2 guaranteed spots in 25 raids quite good
    WotLK: gods of pvp (a bit too early to say but they look promising), pve wise...a bit of a nerf but who knows.

    blizzard can't make everything perfect, so they tend to lean on a difference side each time..., this time they are leaning over to pvp. but the shadow aoe spell...gg on that "oh shadow dear? need aoe? sure here you go, you won't ever use it anyway but at least you can stfu now " ...i'm not very excited about it been channeled. not something i would use to run lowbies through deadmine, holy nova on the other hand was a great spell for the job

  12. #32

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Blizzard dont see their own failure with this design. If they wanna make all classes viable they should balance all classes same way. They gave Frostmages better utility than spriests. They clearly got better dps than shadowpriests. it should go that way that when you got low dps you got utility to replace that, but no blizzard just have buttfucked shadowpriests in wotlk and no smart raid leader will take sp over frostmages with current mechanics. SP is now class that gets to raid when frostmages had to go in the pub or something similar.

  13. #33

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Silly silly, i guess i understand how everyone gets a little nervous before they know if the changes made are going to be good or bad, but dont worry priests are going to be wanted in raids (all 3 specs). We may not be stacking 2 shadowpriests or have a bunch of coh priests, but i can for sure say we will always have 1 shadowpriest (5% dmg for everyone, 15% for shadow um affliction and demonology?) 1 holy priest, guardian spirit is the difference (on occasion) between a kill and and wipe, and a disc priest (gonna be one of the most solid mt healers/and increases healing and reduces dmg, also mana regen just for a healer group)

    Imagine a shadowpriest in a disc priests group with a COH priest, that priest could SPAM coh and never go oom. You tell me thats not effective =]

  14. #34

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Changes would be good or bad but the thing is we really arent get any.

  15. #35

    Re: Death of the priest?

    i think its important to note that if you look at the patch notes, you'll see that bliz has not touched priest save for chages they are making to the world as a whole and the creation of the new talents and spells.

    no tuning on the priest class has been done yet, and bliz keeps saying this, so just chill, save your energy for then there actually working on our class.

  16. #36

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by rikken
    Silly silly, i guess i understand how everyone gets a little nervous before they know if the changes made are going to be good or bad, but dont worry priests are going to be wanted in raids (all 3 specs). We may not be stacking 2 shadowpriests or have a bunch of coh priests, but i can for sure say we will always have 1 shadowpriest (5% dmg for everyone, 15% for shadow um affliction and demonology?) 1 holy priest, guardian spirit is the difference (on occasion) between a kill and and wipe, and a disc priest (gonna be one of the most solid mt healers/and increases healing and reduces dmg, also mana regen just for a healer group)

    Imagine a shadowpriest in a disc priests group with a COH priest, that priest could SPAM coh and never go oom. You tell me thats not effective =]
    apart from fact affliction locks got same problem as SP`s they dont scale so locks will go fire destro and there goes our shadowweaving and there goes also imp SB debuff eating 10% of our dps. Im not sure about this but doesnt seem like misery will stack with DK ebonplaguebringer that gives 13% spell dmg boost on target. Ok so we got VE that has no threat reducements at all. 1+1 is 2 and as it stands out now SP will be very situationally usable on its best in raiding.

  17. #37

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by annox
    i think its important to note that if you look at the patch notes, you'll see that bliz has not touched priest save for chages they are making to the world as a whole and the creation of the new talents and spells.

    no tuning on the priest class has been done yet, and bliz keeps saying this, so just chill, save your energy for then there actually working on our class.
    There were post some time back that they consider priests and druids being most furthest in the development.

  18. #38

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karpalo
    apart from fact affliction locks got same problem as SP`s they dont scale so locks will go fire destro and there goes our shadowweaving and there goes also imp SB debuff eating 10% of our dps. Im not sure about this but doesnt seem like misery will stack with DK ebonplaguebringer that gives 13% spell dmg boost on target. Ok so we got VE that has no threat reducements at all. 1+1 is 2 and as it stands out now SP will be very situationally usable on its best in raiding.
    Blizz has repeated stated that aff locks and demon locks will both be viable in end game raids. Both will have buffs to bring to the raid....They will most likely be the ones keeping up imp sb since destro is gonna be fire.

  19. #39

    Re: Death of the priest?

    the state what they like. There is no way every spec is gonna be equal to another. Look TBC you have like 3 hunters all specced the same few rogues all specced the same. The point im trying to make is that hybrid power is equal to the amount of "pure" classes it boosts. We ran BT with 3 rogues ench shaman and fury warrior in same group, even we had feral in raid. I underdtand totems and auras ect will be raid wide but there is always magic number where it is smart to stop bringing utility classes on cost of dps. This goes for SP`s and everyone else as well in game, meaning you cant get affliction lock + demolock+ sp+ DK just to boost raid dps. You pick one or 2 of the most powerful ones and go for pure dps classes.

  20. #40

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Can't say I'm worried about the future of the Priest... CoH (along with Brain Heal) dominated T6 content, so much so Blizzard got very concerned and are looking at ways to change AoE healing mechanics.

    While Shadow Priests don't go with the pure dps classes at T6 level, i'm not exactly sure why any body cares, they're not a pure dps class. The dps classes can't spec of healing or utility, so why should spriests have the best of both worlds? What they do is restore mana so dps classes can do the big numbers you need them to, or allow healers to keep people alive long enough to clear content.

    From what i've seen in WoTLK and the info comming from Blizzard they want to provide a game environment where people can choose their raid makeup rather than have it dictated to them. For example, at the start of TBC it was pretty much dictated from the moment you started kara that you needed a spriest & pally in order to clear the content. Healers and caster dps went oom without spriests and no salv was a nightmare for any raid. Blizzard see this sort of reliance as a failure and so they should... the idea is for players to select a wide range or ways to clear content instead of having everyone copy everyone. If 20 guilds raid an instance they would liek to see some differences in raid makeup, not the same 10 or 25man groups doing the exact same thing.

    Priests will have plenty of uses in all 3 specs in WoTLK, it will be up to your guild or your raid group to decide whether they want to utilise those specs or not.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •