Death of the priest?

[cryogenic]

You have some really crappy dps or very few paladins / shamans in guild then if you let 5-6 priests into the raid. The max I have heard of is 3 sp and MAYBE 1 healing priest, and then its only due to the mana they can give back to dps.

So 4 priests in a 25 man with 27 specs in the game they are taking up the spots of 2 other specs to simply return mana, that's terrible raid stacking if it continues into wrath.

It's a bit ridiculous for priests to be concerned with not having multiples of one spec in raids when others are concerned with getting in at all with any of their specs with their class.
While enhance is prolifically better for the raid then a DK with the same raid boosts the entire class is lacking though it may be a better tank for a magic boss it has not alot of use as this is gimmicky and situation at best.
Currently there is no reason to have any mages in raid, SHEEP is so powerful what? it's a good heal and dot removal for an opponent now.

[Anglarana]

Its very easy.

The priests in end game guilds now should still have a spot at level 80 raiding just because you have experienced so many encounters and wipes together. :P

If you are not in an end game raiding guild?
- Get in one asap and start doing some proper raiding.

For everyone not in endgame raiding guilds or filthy pvp whores:
- you will still have casual guilds who would like you and for pvp we will all be equal :P



Sooooooooo, Dont worry there will be a spot for all of us.

[Karpalo]

So 4 priests in a 25 man with 27 specs in the game they are taking up the spots of 2 other specs to simply return mana, that's terrible raid stacking if it continues into wrath.

It's a bit ridiculous for priests to be concerned with not having multiples of one spec in raids when others are concerned with getting in at all with any of their specs with their class.
While enhance is prolifically better for the raid then a DK with the same raid boosts the entire class is lacking though it may be a better tank for a magic boss it has not alot of use as this is gimmicky and situation at best.
Currently there is no reason to have any mages in raid, SHEEP is so powerful what? it's a good heal and dot removal for an opponent now.

Any mages in raid? Have you readed any of this post? Frostmages will surely do more dps than shadowpriest and will surely regen more mana specially now when they added new glyph for water elemental. But i dont sign anything atm we are promised to get shadowpriest changes and gotta see what we get before making anymore fuss over this.

[Deamon]

Why wouldnt anyone want to take those "real" dps classes to 10 man raids just cuz of the healers/hybrids?
Kara for example can be done with 2 "real" healers and still be rushed, and not only because of tier 6 / sunwell equip.

To this guy, Kara can be Solo healed by any healing class in T5 (or equivalent non-tier pieces) quite easily. I know, because I've been on alt runs with all 4 classes at different times solo healing it.

Which other class is getting an inane 30% threat reduction + talented threat reduction? Remember tanks TPS is increasing. The argument that we no longer have salvation is redudant because no-one does... so basically we have 30% less threat than any other class as it stands.

I don't know what you raid, but in fights like Bloodboil, or any other fight where the tank(s) don't get optimal TPS, Spriests, having no threat dump, even WITH Blessing of Salvation, have to basically STOP dps, or pull the boss. With the change to VT/VE going raid-wide, and BoS getting the axe, even with all kinds of tanks getting more TPS, it's my belief that Shadow Priests NEED an extra 30% reduction on threat to even stay alive. Because lets face it, dead DPS/Mana return/Health return is useless DPS/Mana return/Health Return.

To put it in perspective, lets look at the other mana returning classes.

Ret Paladin: No innate threat dump, but when you get agro, you can Divine Shield, immediately making the boss retarget the tank, and while shielded, the pally can slow his dps, and the tank will gen. more threat to top out over the pally again.

Hunter: Feign Death. 'Nuff said.

Mage: Frost mage will only return mana while Water Elemental is active, and the threat generated by WE is given to the WE, not the mage.

[dreamscape]

Just because more classes can provide mana regen than just shadowpriests doesn't suddenly mean people will take a ret pally, or a survival hunter, or whatever, to a raid instead of a SP. As far as we know right now, mana issues at 80 raid content will require multiple classes that regen mana for the whole raid. Furthermore, the shadow tree looks to be getting some great changes (-threat on shadowform, pushback resistance, less return damage from SW, never-ending SW:P + extra damage talent for it), and while it seems at the moment like shadow weaving isn't going to be as useful as in TBC (fire locks ftw?), misery still owns.

Spell push back is nerfed alltogether.

Why not thro in hunter/mage instead of shadow priests?

To this guy, Kara can be Solo healed by any healing class in T5 (or equivalent non-tier pieces) quite easily. I know, because I've been on alt runs with all 4 classes at different times solo healing it.

I don't know what you raid, but in fights like Bloodboil, or any other fight where the tank(s) don't get optimal TPS, Spriests, having no threat dump, even WITH Blessing of Salvation, have to basically STOP dps, or pull the boss. With the change to VT/VE going raid-wide, and BoS getting the axe, even with all kinds of tanks getting more TPS, it's my belief that Shadow Priests NEED an extra 30% reduction on threat to even stay alive. Because lets face it, dead DPS/Mana return/Health return is useless DPS/Mana return/Health Return.

To put it in perspective, lets look at the other mana returning classes.

Ret Paladin: No innate threat dump, but when you get agro, you can Divine Shield, immediately making the boss retarget the tank, and while shielded, the pally can slow his dps, and the tank will gen. more threat to top out over the pally again.

Hunter: Feign Death. 'Nuff said.

Mage: Frost mage will only return mana while Water Elemental is active, and the threat generated by WE is given to the WE, not the mage.

this guys on to something

Your going to have other classes capable of the same or more mana regen on top of being a higher yielding dps class.
While you might have a care bear raid leader that likes your personality... I cant see most shadow priests liking where this is going..


WTB dmg increase to increase mana return and dps to put us on par ;D

[PalliesThrowStuff]

I dont think you should be that worried, up until now, priests have been absolutely required to seriously raid, gradually, Blizzard is reconstructing it to add variety to the game, you dont NEED warriors anymore, you have three other options that are just as good. You dont NEED a Shadow Priest anymore, now you can get a Ret Paladin or a Shaman.

As long as the number tweaking works out well, your only concern should be whether or not you're a good player. No Paladin with inferior skills should be taking your job because their abilities are so vital.

If there's one of every spec of every class available, not everyone can go, unfortunately, healers still have the unfair monopoly because there's only five healing specs, but generally seven healers are needed for a 25 man, meaning there will always be extra room for a healing priest.

IMO, they should make raids require 4 tanks and 5 healers, not 2 tanks and 7 healers. At least if they're aiming at diverse raid composition.

[dreamscape]

What if your in a top end raiding guild where EVERYONE is playing to the top of their game. While a terrible ret pally wont take your place you will however have an awesome ret pally/mage taking your spot due to pure game mechanics.(IF sp's are nerfed to hell...while bringing other higher dps class's with mana regen utility)

[dreamscape]

LMAO. So what your saying is... HEY instead of creating a game where skill reigns... WE HAVE A GAME WHERE CAKE RULES!@

EVERYONE HAVE CAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CAKE CAKE CAKE CAKE

Personally that means to what shadow priests strive for in pve... To get to the top...

Uh means that when you get there you will most likely be subbed out for a better raiding class. It affects everyone even if you cant see it.

But personally

I love cake.

[Nogi]

i like cake!

LMAO

LMAO. So what your saying is... HEY instead of creating a game where skill reigns... WE HAVE A GAME WHERE CAKE RULES!@

EVERYONE HAVE CAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CAKE CAKE CAKE CAKE

Personally that means to what shadow priests strive for in pve... To get to the top...

Uh means that when you get there you will most likely be subbed out for a better raiding class. It affects everyone even if you cant see it.

But personally

I love cake.

couldn't stop laughing for 5 mins. its a nice way to describe it.

[cryogenic]

Any mages in raid? Have you readed any of this post? Frostmages will surely do more dps than shadowpriest and will surely regen more mana specially now when they added new glyph for water elemental. But i dont sign anything atm we are promised to get shadowpriest changes and gotta see what we get before making anymore fuss over this.

currently as in TBC....
wrath mages will do more DPS they won't regen more mana.
Imp WE is not a constant.

[Belegonfax]

Holy priests have always been, and will always be the most effective healer in game.

idk about you, but priests are not the most effective healers in any raid i've ever been to, and with wotlk it's not gonna be any different seeing as how druids and pallies are getting an aoe heal

[Karpalo]

currently as in TBC....
wrath mages will do more DPS they won't regen more mana.
Imp WE is not a constant.

Not constant but will regen overall more.

[shyg]

About VT. Top end shadowpriests with 1500+ spell damage right now turn out well over 2000 DPS in raid boss encounters. Right now, that means over 100 mana per second restored to a whole group.

You don't know what you're talking about, record shadowpriest DPS for Brut is 1805: (http://wowwebstats.com/st5e1k5y45jie...4402#abilities)

Shadow priest DPS is being buffed by maaaybe 20, 25% along with increased threat reduction.

Sadly, everyone else is getting DPS buffs as well. And scaling from Crit, Haste, and the Mind Flay coeficient is still atrocious compared to ever other DPS class.

[Ceko]

turn out well over 2000 DPS in raid boss encounters.

pfhahahahaaha ;D ;D ;D another1. PLEASE GOD HIT THE WITH THE HAMMER OF WISDOM ONCE AND FOR ALL ;D ;D ;D

the worlds top is something like 1.9k ;D ;D

[Nuronv]

Its not the death, the game and classes are just changing so that you have reason to bring one of each spec of each class rather than just stacking a few of a certain class/spec

[Nevoron]

Top end shadowpriests with 1500+ spell damage right now turn out well over 2000 DPS in raid boss encounters.

Load of poop.

[Sonic018]

idk about you, but priests are not the most effective healers in any raid i've ever been to, and with wotlk it's not gonna be any different seeing as how druids and pallies are getting an aoe heal

Your beginning is just wrong. Heal priests are the ebst Healers in game at the moment, because most of the encounters deal some kind of AOE dmg. And in concerns of AOE Heals, no other class can put out this amount of grp Heal. Currently in BT/SWP, good Healpriests are erxtime Nr.1 in Healeters, just because of COH. Maybe we arn't the best single target Healer, but we can do all kind of healing at least as well ass a pally druid or shaman. Maybe this sounds a bit overpowered, but the other Healers bring in impotant buffs and abilities for a raid that priests don't. Espacially Healschamans with incredible grp support, Druids with their brezz and also the treeform buff. Pallies with their shield, can just ignore al lot of imparing effects ore AoE dmg regions by just being invulnerable in that time.

The priest has only his poor useless shield in most of the raids (too expensive in terms of mana), and we don't have any really grp support exept our incredible Healing power. Finally if your priests can't play, you can't blame Blizz

But we will see if holy priests are still important to a raid later on in WotLK. I think it's too early to take a position on that point.

[Lifestream]

idk about you, but priests are not the most effective healers in any raid i've ever been to, and with wotlk it's not gonna be any different seeing as how druids and pallies are getting an aoe heal

well u obviously have very bad priests.

[Jonko]

No, obviously you have very bad shamans/druids....

See how that works?

[Lifestream]

No, obviously you have very bad shamans/druids....

See how that works?

rofl, u shitting me
priests should always outheal druids/shammies on a boss fight, or at least 9/10. im not even coh and theyr not even close.
i cant talk bout the last end game encounters as we just started sunwell, working on brut, but i dont see it change anytime soon. priests are the best healers in the game.