Vengeance nerf?

[Vengeful]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/87656...tch-notes.html
Vengeance (Retribution) now stacks up to 2 times, reduced from 3.

[Yvert]

Right now 5/5 is 3stacks 5% damage each stack. So that's 15%. In LK it's 10/20% so we get 5% more damage.

[thefleee]

Woot more talent points to spend on other things

[Deleted]

Right now 5/5 is 3stacks 5% damage each stack. So that's 15%. In LK it's 10/20% so we get 5% more damage.

Source?

[Rawberry]

I can't confirm because the Beta realm is overpopulated again and not allowing logins. I have my doubts on Vengeance being changed to a 2-point talent though.

[Vengeful]

I can't confirm because the Beta realm is overpopulated again and not allowing logins. I have my doubts on Vengeance being changed to a 2-point talent though.

I hope the same

[Rawberry]

Build 8788:




I do have to note that the Stoicism change has not been implemented yet either, so we might have to wait another build.

[Tachi]

It Begins.

[wizzjizz]

rather wait and see what happens in beta before making any conclusions. (Everything is subject to change so lets hold our horses here)

[smokeajay]

Woot more talent points to spend on other things

Wrong, it is still a 5 point talent. 1% for each talent point (stacking up to 2 times) = 10%. Definitely a nerf.

[meliancill]

I expected a damage nerf for rets beffor wrath goes live. and I have seen so many vids about paladins in warth that I will say there damage was way to high even now. im just happy they didnt nerf somthing like CS or somthing like that.

[kraeden]

It used to by 15% instantly... then they nerfed it to 10%, then, as a compromise they restored 15% but made it require 3 stacks to get there... then they buffed the duration alot. Now, they reduce it to 10% again, but it still requires stacks?

Its fine as is. If they wanna nerf it make it 10% instantly again.

[Hobb]

If they do nerf it, you know the next one to follow will be the DK talent Bloody Vengence.

[b8279]

Who knows, maybe the nerf was actually needed this time if they increased paladin dps enough.Just hope they don't replay the Bc beta balancing that buffed,then nerfed,then buffed back to where we were before they nerfed us a year after.
My guess is that they won't make the same mistake twice and that this is needed to allow more leeway when balancing/designing other aspects of the tree.

[Raptorg]

I expected a damage nerf for rets beffor wrath goes live. and I have seen so many vids about paladins in warth that I will say there damage was way to high even now. im just happy they didnt nerf somthing like CS or somthing like that.

high crits don't mean anything

high crits are the paladin way of sustaining damage, they NEED to hit like trucks, otherwise they can sustain the same dps as other classes who hit for less, but more often

keep in mind that pallies have low white damage(2handers) and only 4 attacks to play with(SoC/SoB/SoM + CS + Judgement + Divine Storm)

next to that, they have nothing else

you may argue that shammies don't have a lot of abilities either and they manage

but they dual wield and hit like trucks as well(shocks and windfury)


warriors on the other hand, are another completely different style, they have a LOT of white damage but low yellow damage(only bloodthirst and whirlwind, but their white damage is huge)

rogues are, yet another design, they are able to spam abilities more often and have a lot of white damage by the use of dual wield and SnD

death knights are slightly more similar to pallies, but are still very different, their abilities hit less, but they can use them more often, your average DK uses 5-6 abilities every 10 seconds - unholy death knight use even more then that
not to mention one of them is the most powerful melee strike in-game(obliterate) and it hits harder then anything a paladin can dish out(i've seen 2k crit at level 62 without blood vengeance.. go figure how hard it hits when at the same level as all those high hits pallies are reporting (at level 75-77))

your average paladin is likely to use only those 4 i listed before
in worst case, he only uses 3 because his mana wouldn't be able to keep up in a boss fight(Divine Storm is pretty costly with its 20% of base mana cost, and since pallies won't have +intellect, each DS will cost him 20% of his mana)

also, don't forget that most of these "huge crits" people are posting crit for 25% more damage and ignore armor and are usually against mobs, so they get the full crap swung at them

every self respecting PvP'er would take much less damage from each crit

[meliancill]

ok then... maybe if you watch some of the vids ( link found in my sig ) you might be talking diffrently.

1. lets say they double the required resil at 80 but making it equil damage reduction

paladins are geting 5-8k judgment crits atm so look at it

if they have 500 res thats 12.5% less damage

12.5% of 5-8k would mean a 5k crit would go to 4.4k and an 8k would go to 7040

while yes that is a chunk of the damage even in wrath that is reported to be 1/3 to 1/4 of the hp of MOST ALL classes even if they were to get geard. now you could 2 shot the best gear pvp players even in the best resil they can get.

and remember this is ON DEMAND BURST'S this isnt just a luck thing. a ret can grab this every 60 seconds and pritymuch grantie that crit because of the new tallents they have a realy high crit chance on seals. not even counting an auto attack swing a crusader strike and devine storm meaning this put together would give you well over 10k damage bursts

having that kind of damage out put is way to much. i dont know about you but i dont think bliz didnt intend to make rets hit so hard no class can survive more than 5 hits.

we are not a warrior we are not in any way ment to hold that kind of power and buff and heal and use plate and well other things i cant pull off the top of my head at the moment. a hybrid is a class that can do multiple things but are normaly weeker at any given one. i know rets use burst to drop targets but 1/4 hp on a well geard / best resil target on demand is way to high.

[Menergy]

If this is the kind of nerf we are getting, Im glad. Better reduce that then all the new goodies we got.

[Yvert]

Vengeance (Retribution) now stacks up to 2 times, reduced from 3.

Then i was told it was 10/20%. Far as i know maybe he typed it wrong to me or something. If it is a nerf then it's cool not really gonna make a BIG difference.

[mcstu]

Vengeance (Retribution) now stacks up to 2 times, reduced from 3.

Then i was told it was 10/20%. Far as i know maybe he typed it wrong to me or something. If it is a nerf then it's cool not really gonna make a BIG difference.

Losing 5% damage is not a big difference??? its huge!

[Spamor]

Thats already 15% holy dmg less then in live -.-. Wtb Debuff that gives use 10% more holy dmg again.
Dk(blood) vs Ret

Dk Paladin
Bloody Vengeance 15% Vengance 10% (15%)
Blood Pres. 15% Retaura 2%
Blood Gored 10% (Avenger) (20%)
2H Weapon 4% 2H Weapon 6%
44% 18%(38) 23%(43)

Blizzard is going to revert this or change Vengeance.