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  1. #1

    Noob Ret question...

    I keep seeing some semi-leet people talking about the utmost importance of a swing timer.

    Quoted from wow forums

    "Quartz for a swing timer so you can time your judgments correctly..."

    So when exactly am i supposed to judge relative to my swing bar? I know the rotation calls for CS > anything else, but when exactly are u supposed to judge?

  2. #2

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    I'm a retnoob too, only thing I know you should judge with SoC when your target is stunned or incapacitated, so in this way you can do double damage. And now with the seal system changes, you can judge every 8 sec (if talented) without consuming the seal you have up

  3. #3
    Dreadlord meliancill's Avatar
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    Re: Noob Ret question...

    the best i know is that re-sealing takes your swing timer up. so you judge your spell and wait untill your swing timer re-sets in other words right after your next auto attack to lose the least attack time. idk thats just what i have ben told

  4. #4

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    SoC procs off of melee attacks.

    here is your swing timer:

    Hit >------------------------------------> Hit
    1 2 3 4 5
    (numbers have no meaning)
    so you don't want to judge your Command at 5 because then when you auto hit you dont have a chance to proc SoC, lowering your Dps. However if you judge your SoC at 1-2~ and reapply it at 4 (judgement does not affect GCD of seals) you will have a chance to proc SoC alot more hence = more dps. You can do it without a swing timer, but it gets fair hard :P

  5. #5

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    Quote Originally Posted by xanthor
    SoC procs off of melee attacks.

    here is your swing timer:

    Hit >------------------------------------> Hit
    1 2 3 4 5
    (numbers have no meaning)
    so you don't want to judge your Command at 5 because then when you auto hit you dont have a chance to proc SoC, lowering your Dps. However if you judge your SoC at 1-2~ and reapply it at 4 (judgement does not affect GCD of seals) you will have a chance to proc SoC alot more hence = more dps. You can do it without a swing timer, but it gets fair hard :P
    Awesome! Thanks a lot! Does the same principle apply to Blood as well? Or am I only worrying about swing timing with command?

  6. #6

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Retep
    Awesome! Thanks a lot! Does the same principle apply to Blood as well? Or am I only worrying about swing timing with command?
    its for it the same.. , every seal which procs with autoattacks should be reactivated before the next auto hit occurs , but since seals dont vanish anymore after judging them , i think this is a thing not to worry about anymore in wotlk

  7. #7

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    /cast Judgement
    /cast Seal of whatever

    the above macro makes judging even easier to time, since you can judge pretty much any time but .1 second before the swing and still allow the seal to hit.

  8. #8

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    Everything changes in WotLK. Just be ready for that.

    Live Ret =/= WotLK Ret right now.


    It is sooo much better. =D

  9. #9

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    what i usually did sometime in a battle went like this. SoC, hammer of justice, then i waited till i got one more hit in there with a normal melee swing to maybe proc SoC, then judge, then renew SoC. (i threw in a crusader strike in when i could also.)

  10. #10

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    well i would do the hammer a bit more into the battle

  11. #11

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    i still ask myself if its worth losing some talents to get improved hoj , which could reduce the cd with the current set bonus to 30 secs , dunno anymore if that stacks with set , so it would be 15 secs oO , somethings wrong right now but i cant remember what ^^

  12. #12

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    indeed , i was heal for 3 years , got gladiator as heal , so thats enough to settle down with that job ^^

    edit : just looked up , WTFH , on live improved hoj reduces cd by 5 / 10 / 15 secs , in wotlk by 10 / 20 / 30 ????
    with set bonus that'll be 15 sec cd on stun ? well regarding that the stun holds 6 secs , its more 9 sec cd ? that would be op though i am a ret pally

  13. #13

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrateful
    Swing timers are for Paladins that can't feel out their class's next swing. The reason for it is to know when a good time would be to output more damage with CS/soc/Hoj and joc. It is also for that small weak window to seal twist with soj for a higher stun proc. Imo seal twisting with soc and soj is just dumb. You can get the same effect from using Cs and soj. Imo if you don't know the your weapon and when it's going to swing get a timer. Other then that it's useless. It's a training tool for new Paladins.
    wrong... It is not just a training tool for new Paladins, it is a great tool for raiding ret pallies. If you can "feel out" your swing timer thats great however with the addition of drums, heroism, and haste pots its hard to "feel out" my swing timer.

  14. #14

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Esra
    indeed , i was heal for 3 years , got gladiator as heal , so thats enough to settle down with that job ^^

    edit : just looked up , WTFH , on live improved hoj reduces cd by 5 / 10 / 15 secs , in wotlk by 10 / 20 / 30 ????
    with set bonus that'll be 15 sec cd on stun ? well regarding that the stun holds 6 secs , its more 9 sec cd ? that would be op though i am a ret pally
    CD could be 15 or 20 or 30 sec imo, but remember also that HoJ is subject to diminishing returns

  15. #15

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    well, i mean with 30 secs or lets say 20 or 25 it would be short enough to be used as an interrupt. atm you have to use it very "wisely" with 1 min cd .

  16. #16

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Esra
    indeed , i was heal for 3 years , got gladiator as heal , so thats enough to settle down with that job ^^

    edit : just looked up , WTFH , on live improved hoj reduces cd by 5 / 10 / 15 secs , in wotlk by 10 / 20 / 30 ????
    with set bonus that'll be 15 sec cd on stun ? well regarding that the stun holds 6 secs , its more 9 sec cd ? that would be op though i am a ret pally
    original cd = 60
    set bonus = -10 seconds
    3/3 talent = -30 seconds
    total = 20 second cooldown.

    A couple things to keep in mind here,

    1) hammer of justice is our ONLY legitimate spell interrupt / SoC double dmg (we will be using repentence as a CC in the xpac, not to interrupt spells)

    2) we will be replacing our pvp gear before 80 so it will go back up to a 30 second cooldown which is a LONG cooldown for our only spell interrupt. Think about the other melee classes:
    shaman - 6 second cooldown earthshock
    druid - multiple interrupts including bash(60), feral charge(15), pounce(req stealth), and maim(req combo points) and their new wotlk stun finisher to use as interrupts
    rogue - every other skill practically is an interrupt
    warrior - pummel 10 second cooldown, intercept, charge, intimidating shout, etc.

    I could go on but I think you get the point. It's sad that to be even comparable with other melee classes we have to be 18 points deep in protection and using 4 pieces of pvp gear.

    So, long story short, no it is not overpowered. It is nice that we will get to use our stun every other fight at least, and sometimes more than once in longer fights.


  17. #17

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    The primary use of swing timers is for Blood Elf Paladins. not alliance. yes watching for that ittle stutter is a big dal but not as big as it is for blood elfs.

    this is why. Horde paladins dont judge. they twist. go up on youtube and watch some blood elf twisting videos and youll see.

  18. #18

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    Actually, twisting is not only taxing on attention, but on your mana pool... It also renders your Libram nigh useless due to the fact that you're not Judging/ReSealing whenever you can because of the aspect of waiting for swings.

    Seal Twisting was not intended and isn't going to be in the expansion, just like totem twisting.

    Sure they may be higher DPS wise, but our DPS is fine without exploiting the system like that.

  19. #19

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    me being apperenty noobish than noobisher..

    what is seal twisting? Tried to find it on youtube but could not seem to locate something.

    someone explain?

  20. #20

    Re: Noob Ret question...

    Quote Originally Posted by meliancill
    the best i know is that re-sealing takes your swing timer up. so you judge your spell and wait untill your swing timer re-sets in other words right after your next auto attack to lose the least attack time. idk thats just what i have ben told
    Seals don't reset the attack timer. If you judge just before you swing, you might not have time to reseal before the swing occurs, and you lose the seal effect on that swing. That is why it's useful to have a swing timer mod.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eminus
    me being apperenty noobish than noobisher..

    what is seal twisting? Tried to find it on youtube but could not seem to locate something.

    someone explain?
    You have seal of blood up, then switch to command right when you swing. First, the Blood holy damage goes off, then Command has a chance to proc.

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