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  1. #21

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Azain
    why do you need to find stealthed players? the fact that you know they are there and are prepared when they open should be enough. the fact that a level 8 - 10 spell can defeat one of the defining abilities or a certain class/spec/race is incredibly overpowered. kiting/movement is coming along for mages, but i agree it could use some help.
    So your telling me that Mages or casters in general should have no counter to a rogue's steatlh? It wasn't like they couldn't get around it in the first place.

  2. #22

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    this (if not all other changes until now wouldn't already have^^) will make me blow of the dust from my old tauren hunt, and get his sorry ass to 80 afap ...love surv
    Greetings Undead. Wonderful day to be alive, isn't it?

  3. #23

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvdatboi
    So your telling me that Mages or casters in general should have no counter to a rogue's steatlh? It wasn't like they couldn't get around it in the first place.
    as sub sure, they can ShS in and ae won't matter. but i'm looking at it from a mage's perspective (having one myself). knowing a rogue is in the BG and simply running around in a circle spamming rank 1 is fairly cheap. like-wise if a rogue stealths or vanish you can just spam a 50 mana spell or w/e it is to negate an entire class.

    it's not like blizzard is saying, AoE spells no longer break stealth, they are simply saying if you care that much about bringing chars out of stealth you will need to actually use some mana to do so. i don't see breaking stealth as so much an issue of rank 1 poly/nova/fbolt in arenas. but again, its going to cost real mana to rank 1 kite someone, like it or not :/

    and as others have said, this is beta, meaning it will almost certainly change before release, rather than gouge each other's eyes out with theorycraft why not wait and see what the final changes are while offering constructive feedback.

  4. #24

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverend
    FIX TITANS GRIP you f**king retards.

    From what the blue said there he doesn't seem to realize 2x 1handers > 2x 2handers. This is worrying.
    do you play on beta and have actually seen how good it is?

  5. #25

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    I like how there's an ad for mmo-champion on the left ad bar for me right now lol

  6. #26

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Rapid Recuperation has been redesigned - Reduces the mana and focus cost of all shots and abilities by you and your pet by 20/40/60% while under the effect of Rapid Fire, and you gain mana equal to 50/100/150% of the damage you do under the effect of Rapid Killing over 6 sec. (Old - Reduces the mana cost of all shots and abilities by 20/40/60% while under the effect of Rapid Fire and Rapid Killing.)

    Uhm... so i kill a mob, get Rapid Killing. Load up an aimed shot (+10% dmg). Hit for anywhere between 2k - 4k (looking at my 70 hunter in welfare epics), get 3k - 6k mana back? After every mob/player kill...

    Am i reading anything wrong or does this just sound grossly overpowered?

    Been a while since i had Rapid Killing specced so i don't know exactly anymore, do melee attacks or non-aimed/arcane/auto shots consume the 20 second buff? If not, will i get 2k mana back when i raptor strike a clothie, after which i get my 3k-6k mana back when i aimed shot the next guy (or girl, i make no exceptions.)? Questions, questions...

  7. #27

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by hypermode
    do you play on beta and have actually seen how good it is?
    Emphasis on ''seen''. Sure it LOOKS awesome but 2x 1handers DOES MORE DAMAGE than 2x 2handers with the current titans grip. Numbers don't lie.
    80 Druid, 84 Priest, 85 Death Knight, 85 Mage, 76 Shaman, 85 Warrior, 70 Warlock, 70 Paladin

  8. #28

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Azain
    as sub sure, they can ShS in and ae won't matter. but i'm looking at it from a mage's perspective (having one myself). knowing a rogue is in the BG and simply running around in a circle spamming rank 1 is fairly cheap. like-wise if a rogue stealths or vanish you can just spam a 50 mana spell or w/e it is to negate an entire class.

    it's not like blizzard is saying, AoE spells no longer break stealth, they are simply saying if you care that much about bringing chars out of stealth you will need to actually use some mana to do so. i don't see breaking stealth as so much an issue of rank 1 poly/nova/fbolt in arenas. but again, its going to cost real mana to rank 1 kite someone, like it or not :/

    and as others have said, this is beta, meaning it will almost certainly change before release, rather than gouge each other's eyes out with theorycraft why not wait and see what the final changes are while offering constructive feedback.
    You act like a rogue is completely useless once their out of stealth. If they don't want people spamming lower rank spells they should go and figure out why people were doing so in the first place. It makes no sense to go oom just to find a rogue then to have no mana to defend your self but at the same token knowning on is in the area and to do nothing about it. Going oom to kite someone defeats the prpose of kiting in its entirerty when you have no subsequent mana to do something. It's not a crime to discuss the direction their taking each class based off of Beta. In Beta this is where things get hamered out efore the final build.

  9. #29

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Once out of stealth we lose the advantage, and are likely to be kept at a distance and be kited.
    Since, that is where we cant do any dps, and thus are likely to lose.

    Rogues need their target in range, to keep them stunned, interrupted, etc.

    Author of: Goggle Cat Comics.

  10. #30

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    But you have tools to avoid being kited so just because you loose the opener does not mean an automatic loss.

  11. #31

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Getting an opener as a rogue can be game deciding, especially in double DPS setups. If you really want to prevent a rogue from getting an opener, you SHOULD have to pay for it, it shouldn't be a free no-brainer. Most classes have no choice but to sit there and wait to be opened up on, why should mages be special? Especially seeing how they can simply blink out of a cheap shot anyway, so the best rogue opener is not even an option on a mage.

    And for as long as hamstring and shiv can't be downranked for lower rage/energy cost, neither should any other snare/root spell.

  12. #32

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by FailedCRC
    I don't think you understand the basic principles behind an RPG if you believe 'stuff' would ever get taken away from players.
    There's also a difference between lvl 70 arena point (possibly) not being usable to buy lvl 80 arena gear, and regular items collected through questing and killing mobs being taken away arbitrarily.

  13. #33

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Azain
    why do you need to find stealthed players?
    Take stunlocking away (dunno, make 3 stuns work and then give it 1 min CD) and I don't need to find stealthed players

  14. #34

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackburn
    Getting an opener as a rogue can be game deciding, especially in double DPS setups. If you really want to prevent a rogue from getting an opener, you SHOULD have to pay for it, it shouldn't be a free no-brainer. Most classes have no choice but to sit there and wait to be opened up on, why should mages be special? Especially seeing how they can simply blink out of a cheap shot anyway, so the best rogue opener is not even an option on a mage.

    And for as long as hamstring and shiv can't be downranked for lower rage/energy cost, neither should any other snare/root spell.
    So one class without a doubt should completely dominate the other based off of an opening move. Why must I pay for it only to not be viable to do anything after. Some rogues don't open up on mages with a Cheap Shot seeing as you can Blink out of it so they start off with Garrote which not only is a non dispellable bleed a 3 sec silence and surely your posions will do off further crippling the mage. The situation your describing to me is damned if you do and damned if you don't which makes no sense to me.

  15. #35

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverend
    FIX TITANS GRIP you f**king retards.

    From what the blue said there he doesn't seem to realize 2x 1handers > 2x 2handers. This is worrying.
    What? He said pretty specifically that they are going to buff it till it is a no brainer to pick up the talent. What's worrying is your reading comprehension.


    "The design is for Titan's Grip to be a dps increase. It's easy to make it too much of an increase, and we may be being too cautious with the numbers at the moment. But when we talk about Lich King, we are assuming most Fury warriors are using two-handers. It's not supposed to be hard decision."

  16. #36

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Regarding the Priest comment, I would like to say that Paladins want to be hit just as much as Warriors and Druids do. Our entire tanking mechanic is focused around taking damage and reflecting that back. Have you ever heard of the Paladin who takes off their pants while tanking? That's because they're not being hit which means they don't have any mana to generate threat with. A Paladin who's shielded is a broken tank. I'm really disappointed about the fact that I have to correct blue about this.

  17. #37

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    I'm sure they're aware that paladin need mana as well, but the immediate response mentions rage because it's instantly crippling to not get rage, especially on an AoE pull, but it's not so crippling to lose a chunk of mana off the initial damage burst.

  18. #38

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwios
    What? He said pretty specifically that they are going to buff it till it is a no brainer to pick up the talent. What's worrying is your reading comprehension.


    "The design is for Titan's Grip to be a dps increase. It's easy to make it too much of an increase, and we may be being too cautious with the numbers at the moment. But when we talk about Lich King, we are assuming most Fury warriors are using two-handers. It's not supposed to be hard decision."
    I'm not sure what Blizz is thinking when they say "most fury warriors are using two-handers". Last I checked, most warriors go hybrid in which they split between fury and arms. And even if they have 1 extra point into the fury opposed to the arms tree so the system says they're fury, they're still a hybrid and dont completely utilize the full arms or fury tree. This xpac will be no different as most warriors will either be hybrid or go prot as the end talents don't justify spending all your points into one tree.

    While warriors may have gotten away with going hybrid in TBC, and may also get away with it in this xpac, it's really only a matter of time till it starts to severely gimp warriors when most other classes will be able to enjoy their supposedly much more powerful end talents while warriors are still running around with similar setups from vanilla WoW.

  19. #39

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackburn
    Getting an opener as a rogue can be game deciding, especially in double DPS setups. If you really want to prevent a rogue from getting an opener, you SHOULD have to pay for it, it shouldn't be a free no-brainer. Most classes have no choice but to sit there and wait to be opened up on, why should mages be special? Especially seeing how they can simply blink out of a cheap shot anyway, so the best rogue opener is not even an option on a mage.

    And for as long as hamstring and shiv can't be downranked for lower rage/energy cost, neither should any other snare/root spell.
    Rogues are NOT entitled to an opener, just like mages aren't entitled to have a homing spell on a rogue guaranteed to knock him out of stealth. But rank 1 spells are the only non-idiotic way for a mage to find a rogue in stealth. It's way too much of an investment to justify using ANY ranged AoE and full rank AE spam will get you oom fast. The sense of entitlement coming from rogues is eye-rolling.
    We don't really think we need more caster hate in the game right now. - GC

  20. #40

    Re: PvP Rewards, Hunter changes, Blue posts, Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackburn
    Especially seeing how they can simply blink out of a cheap shot anyway, so the best rogue opener is not even an option on a mage.
    ^ this.

    I was wondering how much mages were going to cry that some of their best (free!) spells are actually going to cost them mana now...

    Still doubt this downrank change is going to go live as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dinamic
    But rank 1 spells are the only non-idiotic way for a mage to find a rogue in stealth.
    How often I forget that rogues are the only class with stealth... lol.

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