Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Ret PvP concern.

    As of now we are still walking killing machines, but we are still easily kite'ble or cc'ble by almost every single class. As we slowly get fine tuned and other classes aswell, the classes will then be in blizzards eyes "balanced" and for the most part ours too. I like what has happened to paladins in general, it has new edge to it, no longer a 3 button class in raids for all the specs and pvp it has potential for several unqiue builds. Anyways, judgement of justice is and always will be my biggest concern.....its only good in limited situations, and by a good player easy to avoid. It needs more, I am tired of running after people as a melee going SLIGHTLY slower then myself, its only realy useful on travel forms and sprint on a rogue. Thats it and its not enough, as a melee you have to be right in their face and if you factor players lag in...can be very frustrating. So what I am saying is, give us a talent to tweak it in the RET tree or merge it into one since its already bloated.

    A good talent would be moving pursuit of justice down the tree and adding an effect like below and removing the chance to be hit by spells.
    Something like.....

    If target runs 10 yards away from paladin with justice applied, it stuns the target for 2 seconds. Can only proc once every 10 seconds.

    or

    same thing but your additionally slowed by 60% for 6 seconds. (instead of stunned)

    Something like that, not copying other classes, our own unique way of catching up to a target.

  2. #2

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Agreed. Ret paladins need a way to catch up. I like your idea. It shouldn't be a stun, otherwise I know I'd turn around backwards to proc stuns.

    It could be a root proc or a slow proc.

    My own personal simple fix would simply be to make Judgement of Justice decrease someone's max movement speed through the Pursuit of Justice talent (this way only ret paladins can make use of it). 1 pt for further -10%, 2 pts for total of -20%. This would give a ret paladin a net 35% over whomever they're chasing. Given that ret paladins do not have to spam the ability to maintain it, 35% total seems fair. The 15% total right now just isn't enough, especially with some lag in the mix. Obviously it should not stack with other snares since JoJ is not considered a snare in terms of druid-shifting, rogue-sprinting, etc.

  3. #3

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    maybe slowing down is nice, but SoJ is still simply the Anti-druid-Seal, preventing rogues from sprinting is less game-breaking than messing up a druid's travel form.

  4. #4

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Crusader strike currently has no second affect. They could make a glyph were Crusader strike also has a chance to slow an opponent by 40-50% or something.
    We are warriors, born from the light
    An army for freedom, defenders of life
    Warriors, euphoria will rise
    Returning from darkness we bury all lies

  5. #5

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    The mechanic fits with the Paladin theme: Slow down! You're speeding! Perhaps ret paladins should proc a speed buff--which also fits the Paladin theme: Totally random. :

  6. #6

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    I couldn't agree more with the OP's opinion/solution (although agreed it shouldn't be a stun). I'll be submitting a suggestion ticket when I log into the beta in a bit.

  7. #7

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    I was thinking in the line of SoJ, but with SoJ lowering the Running Speed with 20%, from the Locked 100%..? Or 10%, so the Paladin can reach the "runner"..

  8. #8

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Oh please dear god, no more fucking slows!!!1

    It's so piss annoying that, when slowed, you can pretty much only stand in one place and cast, allowing melee's to run 8's through you all the time and thereby preventing any damage output from you >_<

    When not slowed, you can at least move a bit away and gain some cast time before it starts getting pushed back and cancelled.

    use repentance/hammer of justice if people run away ? :s

  9. #9

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Did Repentance and Hammer of Justice just fall off your bars?

    edit: beaten.

  10. #10

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Other melee hybrids have some form of a relatively 'spammable' snare effect.

    Death Knights - Chains of Ice (baseline) root which gives back movement at 10% per tick, 20y range, lasts 10s, 15s CD, (however, as per blue post here they may remove the CD and make it spammable). (nondispellable).

    Feral Druids - Infected Wounds (40-point talent, up to 3 points), -10% per application (up to -50%), lasts 12s. (five-stack but probably dispellable [disease?]).

    Enhancement Shaman - Frost Shock (baseline) -50%, 20y range, lasts 8s, 6s CD. (dispellable [magic]).

    Retribution Paladins - Judgment of Justice - prevents movement from exceeding 100%, 10y range, lasts 20s or refreshed on paladin's melee swing. (dispellable [magic])

    Doesn't there seem to be a disparity here?

    "What about Repentance and Hammer of Justice?" Good point. What about them? Here are the details: Hammer of Justice is a 35 second CD with talents and 4-set gladiator armor. Repentance is a 60 second CD. Both are subject to diminishing returns. Repentance is on the same DR as sheep, sap and gouge. Hammer of Justice, while not on the same DR as something like mace stun still goes immune if the hammer would be the 4th stun in a sequence (happens more frequently than you'd imagine). Additionally, Hammer of Jusice is only a 10 yard range. It's just as unlikely to be in range as the person kiting the retribution paladin. This in addition to a sundry of talented stun reductions and magic resists. (Keep in mind these two abilities are also cited as evidence for why ret paladins should not receive a spell interrupt akin to pummel.)

    Now do the other melee hybrids have a form of making up distance?

    Death Knights will have an ability that draws people to them (a la Scorpions famed "Get over here").

    Feral Druids have Feral Charge (now in both bear and cat) in addition to increased run speed in cat form and travel form.

    Enhancement Shaman have instant-cast Ghost Wolf (+40% run speed buff), not to mention Earthbind totems.

    Retribution Paladins have +15% passive run speed. (N.B. most classes use meta gems or boot enchants to achieve more than half of that 15%).

    Even if we put Repentance (N.B. also dispellable) in this latter category this still leaves them without a comparable snare. I think this is very problematic. If we put Repentance in the spell interrupt or CC category, that leaves them relatively no way to catch up with people in respect to other hybrid classes that feature a melee-spec.

  11. #11

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Excuse me for the question : are HoJ and Repentance subject to diminushing returns? They are not spammable spells

  12. #12

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    You know thats what makes the game fun.
    I mean you could give all classes a copies of a spells. We have seen it with Mortal Strike and the could change the character creation screen to class 1 2 3 and all have the same spells only the name is different.

    The game would be like communistic staat, nobody will be happy in such a staat in the longrun. Every one wants to be unique. A baker isn´t going to do what a fisher does. It already sucks that in wow female and male chars share the same stats, elder scrolls had that pretty neat.

    The classes have there certain weakness's for a reason, to give the game flavor. There will allways be flamers and whiner e.g. Mortal Strike vs Crusader Strike or Shamis flurry vs warriors furry etc. This is how you get skill into a game. Offcourse some classes are easery to play, but then you can be proud if made the same.

    Some of you just go well blizzard failed at this and that, you know you could allways make your own game and make it better with all classes having all spells. No one is holding you back.
    Pity Heal
    Unlimited range
    Channeled
    Baron Ashbury has pity on you, but only so he can continue inflicting pain! Heals all nearby enemies and allies for 5% health every 1 sec.
    Spellid 93705

  13. #13

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    To the poster above, keep your assumptions out of this topic.....I never mentioned a charge or ms effect...honestly its not needed on a paladin. I just want a unqiue slow since we are melee. Go flame some where else.

  14. #14

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Yes, Vengeful, Hammer of Justice and Repentance are both subject to diminishing returns. Read here for more information. One thing not noted in the description is that Repentance is on the same DR as sap, polymorph and gouge.

    Spamor, I like Scarzi think retribution paladins need a snare/slow. I never mentioned M.S. or intercept/charge. I was just making a comparison between hybrids.

    What Scarzi is suggesting, I also think, could be built into Retribution Aura (and perhaps proc in a fashion that Earthbind does).

  15. #15

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Thanks Westley for the answer.

    By the way, I have to say HoJ subject to diminishing returns is very crazy, it isn't spammable.
    Death Knight have 3 interrupt/silence effects and their Chains of Ice isn't subject to diminishing returns.
    And now, with the Stoicism change, our BoF is 99% dispellable

  16. #16

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spamor
    You know thats what makes the game fun.
    I mean you could give all classes a copies of a spells. We have seen it with Mortal Strike and the could change the character creation screen to class 1 2 3 and all have the same spells only the name is different.

    The game would be like communistic staat, nobody will be happy in such a staat in the longrun. Every one wants to be unique. A baker isn´t going to do what a fisher does. It already sucks that in wow female and male chars share the same stats, elder scrolls had that pretty neat.

    The classes have there certain weakness's for a reason, to give the game flavor. There will allways be flamers and whiner e.g. Mortal Strike vs Crusader Strike or Shamis flurry vs warriors furry etc. This is how you get skill into a game. Offcourse some classes are easery to play, but then you can be proud if made the same.

    Some of you just go well blizzard failed at this and that, you know you could allways make your own game and make it better with all classes having all spells. No one is holding you back.
    /sigh ... with that argument your telling people with quality input, to just be quiet and play what blizzard gives them (preserve the flavor!! Q_Q). What a worthless post, we're constructively trying to suggest things for a class that is getting highly revamped, and that's your arguement?...

  17. #17

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    In my personal experiance i dont rly think pally`s should need a real slowing abillity,
    My mage for instance has around 11k hp and my friends pally had recent lvl 70 gear (u may call me noob or call him skilled )
    but he almost kicked my butt. once a pally gets near u he unleashes a hell of burst.

    not to speak about the ones with the right gear and skill.
    I dont know how they do it but once a pally comes near u he can trash u in seconds not to speak of the bubble actions.

    Its like facing a cast to prevent interupts, Time ur stuns and repentance and u`ll be fine else l2p.

    OT i hear pallys are like walking gods in the beta now so no1 wants to come near u anyway...

  18. #18

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Westley
    Other melee hybrids have some form of a relatively 'spammable' snare effect.

    Death Knights - Chains of Ice (baseline) root which gives back movement at 10% per tick, 20y range, lasts 10s, 15s CD, (however, as per blue post here they may remove the CD and make it spammable). (nondispellable).

    Feral Druids - Infected Wounds (40-point talent, up to 3 points), -10% per application (up to -50%), lasts 12s. (five-stack but probably dispellable [disease?]).

    Enhancement Shaman - Frost Shock (baseline) -50%, 20y range, lasts 8s, 6s CD. (dispellable [magic]).

    Retribution Paladins - Judgment of Justice - prevents movement from exceeding 100%, 10y range, lasts 20s or refreshed on paladin's melee swing. (dispellable [magic])

    Doesn't there seem to be a disparity here?
    Druids can shift out of all those other things, but not JoJ. Ret pallies also tend to run faster than other classes at the baseline. They lack active abilities - ghost wolf (JoJ), travel form (JoJ), sprint (JoJ), blink, etc. - to make themselves even faster, but they run at a pretty good clip all the time. If your judgement gets dispelled, I can see how that'd be a problem, but I rarely see determined ret paladins having any trouble keeping up with a target. Hell, I sometimes have trouble getting away from one on my rogue, which is just below druid in being designed to run away.

    Getting away from Ret is basically all you can do to defend against it. No one can take that kind of burst. Giving them a real "snare" would just doom one target at a time.

  19. #19

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    you can still bubble cant you?

    bubble

    heal
    heal
    heal
    heal
    heal
    spam
    spam
    spam
    so every class has to kill you twice... if you are any good at playing your class

    and yes, i have played a paladin before
    Still proudly wearing his 4xT8.1. Keep your faceroll gear. Bitches.

  20. #20

    Re: Ret PvP concern.

    And talented for that judgement->mana return ability, even if healing drains your mana you can slap it right back up.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •