About time to revert Fanaticism?

[Esra]

I think the only thing which causes this "opness" is that judgments suddenly do insane dmg from nearly none on live ( my ret pally with decent gear just like 1k crits without stun) which goes through armor because of being holy.

i think they will perhaps remove the AP bonus for dmg of judgments again, since rets now have enough spellpower to improve their dmg

[mcstu]

I think the only thing which causes this "opness" is that judgments suddenly do insane dmg from nearly none on live ( my ret pally with decent gear just like 1k crits without stun) which goes through armor because of being holy.

i think they will perhaps remove the AP bonus for dmg of judgments again, since rets now have enough spellspower to improve their dmg

1k crit on an unstunned target, is not op, nowhere near.

[Rawberry]

1k crit on an unstunned target, is not op, nowhere near.

Learn to read. Thanks.

[mcstu]

Learn to read. Thanks.

my point being that we are far from 'opness'.

Learn not to be rude.

[Dynadan]

IMo there should be more pve talents. Blizz have stated that they want each tree in each class to be slightly bloated (so that not everyone has the same build). Now if you want a pvp build, the ret tree is very much bloated but if you are only interested in pve, its almost anorexic.

I think you don't realize that Ret paladins will be the preferred Kings buffer in any intelligent raid since the prot paladin will be buffing Sanctuary and the holy paladins will be speccing into ret for 5% spell crit.

[Spamor]

well now that we have enough cake let´s get some PIE !!!!!!!!!!

[mcstu]

I think you don't realize that Ret paladins will be the preferred Kings buffer in any intelligent raid since the prot paladin will be buffing Sanctuary and the holy paladins will be speccing into ret for 5% spell crit.

Sanctuary isnt exactly a raid breaker. If you said to a prot what do u want kings or sanctuary, i bet the answer will be kings.

However, we have discussed these kind of things with our pallys atm. As a ret i dont mind speccing kings to allow a holy more spell crit (if conviction applies to non-offensive spells?? - i dont know, the talent says an extra 5% critical strike to spells and attacks but when you look at holy power it says critical effect). But anyhoo, assume thats just semantics, someone needs to spec 5 points in imp might if the ret is going to buff kings (imp might is pretty awesome now) which means the holys will prob will lose benediction- which is a mana saver for them if they are judging more now.

Atm our prots say they would rather do the kings- as this is the one blessing that will get you a certain raid invite - which leaves the rest to do what they wish.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Like you, Samiel, I just hope it's a nerf to overall damage done rather than completely gimping a particular ability/mechanic or causing the loss of some utility.

Why not gut Vengeance instead of just nerfing it by 5%?

"Whenever a raid or party member is reduced to 35% of their total HP or lower, you fly off the handle and gain 3/6/9/12/15% melee haste for 10 seconds. This effect can stack up to 5 times."

Wipe Prevention, plus an occasional melee haste effect just because your tank caught an unlucky suckerpunch. Not to mention it actually represents Vengeance... it doesn't count as Vengeance if you get pissed off... because you were already pissed off.

[Esra]

Why not gut Vengeance instead of just nerfing it by 5%?

"Whenever a raid or party member is reduced to 35% of their total HP or lower, you fly off the handle and gain 3/6/9/12/15% melee haste for 10 seconds. This effect can stack up to 5 times."

Wipe Prevention, plus an occasional melee haste effect just because your tank caught an unlucky suckerpunch. Not to mention it actually represents Vengeance... it doesn't count as Vengeance if you get pissed off... because you were already pissed off.

some people have strange moods ^^

[Boobies]

yeah, it's not as if the talent just blatantly fails to deliver for anything but the threat reduction
which in WotLK isn't likely to become all that important

Maybe if you were INTELLIGENT you could put two and two together about what blizz is doing to our judgments and realize that them critting means a hell of a lot more than before.

Doing the math, you probably could crit for close to 5k on stunned targets with how JoC's formula was changed (36% of ap + 58% of spelldamage + 30% of melee weapon) + righteous vengeance. In WOTLK, even if you doubled everyones health in full pvp gear, that is still close to a quarter of someones health gone.

Using a pally with 2k ap (which = 600 spelldamage with talents) and an average damage range of 1k, you get around 1600 with vengeance up with sanctified retribution. This is probably lower than a fully decked out ret pally at 80 in wotlk (the weapon range was just a rough estimate, favouring a lower damage range) With righteous vengeance thrown in (pre nerf), it crits for 3400 on unstunned targets. So technically, on a stunned target you would be critting for close to 7k if they had no resi. Add in avenging wrath and you can see what blizz is going to nerf next.

So pretty much, everything will remain mostly intact, just that our judgment damage will be toned down to sane levels.

Anyways, this post is as fail as the one with everyone wanting to change art of war...removing stuns from a squishy or healer is an insta win in my book.