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  1. #61

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by Calaba
    It's more an issue of how easy PvP epics are to get - you don't need to win/kill anything to get them. You can lose all 10 arena matches or battlegrounds and you'll still be rewarded. And yet they're still good for PvE (at least for DPS). As such, there's hardly any actual "accomplishment" there, other than a high arena rating.
    As for the dungeon length, it's clear they're becoming very fast to clear. Take MGT for example, it's a quick 20 - 30 minute run with a good group. And the trash pulls there are REALLY big. Odds are good that some of the new instances will be even faster, as they'll have less trash per pull, but keep the same number of bosses. I'm not sure what they meant by having feedback about instances being too long... the only long instances in TBC were Kara and BT.

    If anything TBC instances were too SHORT, Magtheridon in particular should've had at least 3 or 4 other bosses in there, the first one on a par with Attumen in Kara. Same goes for Gruul.

    The good news is that we get Naxx this time, which they'll hopefully be able to scale properly. I'm hoping for a Gruul - level Patchwerk or so.
    This is really crap mate, Good arena pvp at 1800+ rating requires more skill then raiding BT and I even see sunwell geared mages fail at something as easy as controlling rogues.
    In my guild we have a prot warrior who never tanked illidan flames before who is in a 3v3 team with 2300 rating, he tanked them without any effort while regulars still fail at dodging flames and stuff.
    PvP>Pve in personall skill
    PvP=Pve in communication and coordination (if you are a raidleader or officer as a normal member you just do what your told)
    PvP<Pve in dedication.

    Also a common mistake is that ''losing 10 games a week'' gets you easy epics, this is as far as i can see untrue, say you are at 1500 rating all time, this gets you 300 points a week for 10 games so say around 1.5 hour/week play.
    That way it takes 1 month to get your first Item (gloves) and then you still have 1 Piece of BT pve gear in 1 month, you can't tell me you can't get 1 epic/month in pve unless you seriously fail.
    Heck i got 6/8 tier 6 and bt equiv gear in a span of 3 weeks while being in bt+sw, so all-in-all pve gives faster gear then pvp.

    Also Farming honor gear takes a total over ~300000 honor and 250 marks to get the full s2 set+Guardian gear (assuming you have the pr for it) being able to farm 2.5k honor/hour is fast so for a full set you would spend 120 hours in av to get a full pvp set which is about tk equivalent in pve dps, I have been like 100 hours in pve and i already have far better gear.

    This is all i have to say about it, ask me questions or flame if you don't like the truth, i will try to answer all

  2. #62

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by hypermode
    This is really crap mate, Good arena pvp at 1800+ rating requires more skill then raiding BT and I even see sunwell geared mages fail at something as easy as controlling rogues.
    In my guild we have a prot warrior who never tanked illidan flames before who is in a 3v3 team with 2300 rating, he tanked them without any effort while regulars still fail at dodging flames and stuff.
    PvP>Pve in personall skill
    PvP=Pve in communication and coordination (if you are a raidleader or officer as a normal member you just do what your told)
    PvP<Pve in dedication.

    Also a common mistake is that ''losing 10 games a week'' gets you easy epics, this is as far as i can see untrue, say you are at 1500 rating all time, this gets you 300 points a week for 10 games so say around 1.5 hour/week play.
    That way it takes 1 month to get your first Item (gloves) and then you still have 1 Piece of BT pve gear in 1 month, you can't tell me you can't get 1 epic/month in pve unless you seriously fail.
    Heck i got 6/8 tier 6 and bt equiv gear in a span of 3 weeks while being in bt+sw, so all-in-all pve gives faster gear then pvp.

    Also Farming honor gear takes a total over ~300000 honor and 250 marks to get the full s2 set+Guardian gear (assuming you have the pr for it) being able to farm 2.5k honor/hour is fast so for a full set you would spend 120 hours in av to get a full pvp set which is about tk equivalent in pve dps, I have been like 100 hours in pve and i already have far better gear.

    This is all i have to say about it, ask me questions or flame if you don't like the truth, i will try to answer all
    a very good post.
    but: you only get your 6 T6 pieces if you already farm BT and sunwell
    otherwise its a more painful way..

  3. #63

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by hypermode
    This is really crap mate, Good arena pvp at 1800+ rating requires more skill then raiding BT and I even see sunwell geared mages fail at something as easy as controlling rogues.
    In my guild we have a prot warrior who never tanked illidan flames before who is in a 3v3 team with 2300 rating, he tanked them without any effort while regulars still fail at dodging flames and stuff.
    PvP>Pve in personall skill
    PvP=Pve in communication and coordination (if you are a raidleader or officer as a normal member you just do what your told)
    PvP<Pve in dedication.

    Also a common mistake is that ''losing 10 games a week'' gets you easy epics, this is as far as i can see untrue, say you are at 1500 rating all time, this gets you 300 points a week for 10 games so say around 1.5 hour/week play.
    That way it takes 1 month to get your first Item (gloves) and then you still have 1 Piece of BT pve gear in 1 month, you can't tell me you can't get 1 epic/month in pve unless you seriously fail.
    Heck i got 6/8 tier 6 and bt equiv gear in a span of 3 weeks while being in bt+sw, so all-in-all pve gives faster gear then pvp.

    Also Farming honor gear takes a total over ~300000 honor and 250 marks to get the full s2 set+Guardian gear (assuming you have the pr for it) being able to farm 2.5k honor/hour is fast so for a full set you would spend 120 hours in av to get a full pvp set which is about tk equivalent in pve dps, I have been like 100 hours in pve and i already have far better gear.

    This is all i have to say about it, ask me questions or flame if you don't like the truth, i will try to answer all
    Tier 6 you get like crazy, 3 pieces per slot per run, so yeh you can get full tier 6 in weeks. Other gear... less so. I'm still waiting for my Skull of Gul'dan, and we've yet to see an off-hand warglaive drop. This is "random loot is random", which it is NOT in PvP.


  4. #64

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by hypermode
    Sorry but all your ''please donot nerf paladin'' noobs should really:
    A. Shut up
    B. Play Beta
    C. Accept info from people who are in beta.

    Atm in Pve, paladins are fine and many are brough to high raids, on the contrary for for instance druids where we (A 4/6 SW guild) usually bring only one while we take many more paladins and shams and coh priests.
    Pve healing paladins have been buffed very much in WOTLK Beta atm, having an aoe heal and massive mana efficientie aswell as very strong Seals which can be judged from far away and last very long.
    Tom Chilton however was talking about ret damage in the BETA, which is really over the top atm, I (Feral druid in bear with 5/5 vengefull and 60% Armor migitation in bear) Have been brough down from 21k health to 5k health while in bear in the duration of 1 HOJ from a retri paladin in WOTLK quest greens, critting me several times for 4k+ in the duration.
    I hope everyone can agree this is over the top, especially against clothies with 0 resi who are getting one-shotted atm.
    I think this is all an itemisation BUG and should be fixed, not a nerf as to what ret is now
    1- Clothies with 0 that think they can own everyone and not get owned by a heavy hitter melee class is a noob, this situation happens today in TBC, it's not WotLK exclusive;
    2- Today in live, a clothie with 0 resi that isn't a fresh new 70, can one shot everyone in PvP, specially melees that do not get in melee range very fast (lol ret pally). They need to be killed on sight (go go locks doing 9k+ shadowbolts on 400+ resi ppl), they'll die fast, but if they're not stupid or had a bad luck, they'll take 1 or 2 with them before it;
    3- As long as you see that a ret pally will not spell lock you, stun lock you, "interrupt" everytime (more than a emergency long cd resistible stun/repentance, that you can trinket/bubble out without any spell cast real interrupt), charge/intercept (this means, get in melee range all the time) you'll have to aggree that they're left alone with just pure (and partially mitigated) damage. If they can't do enough damage to counter their lack of combat control (like you example druid HAVE and will still have in wotlk), they're just a epic fail at pvp.

    It's nice that ppl talk about ret paladins performance in high end raids (BT/SWP), but forget what they need to get there. A Ret paladin is as good as his gear is (more than dps warriors), they need very good gear to do what other dps can doo so early in the game.

    It's very good to hear that the judgement refreshes, 1 extra bless and +3% raid crit/+2% group damage can give the retpally a spot in 25-man, but unfortunately that isn't enough to grant them the same spot in 5-man/5-man heroics (doesn't matter your gear) or 10-man raids (without very high gear). That's a fact today. And as you can remember, 5-man/heroics/10-man is where you should gear yourself for 25-man. Unless the raid is on easy farm, no guild would bring a ret pally in noob gear to 25-man, sorry. It's not fun to wait almost an entire expansion life cycle (and content nerfs) so every group can stand an almost dead weight on it.

    I liked the new ret stuff, but they're much more PVE focused (and very needed), but I'm not that sure about PVP eficiency.

  5. #65

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by hypermode
    This is really crap mate, Good arena pvp at 1800+ rating requires more skill then raiding BT and I even see sunwell geared mages fail at something as easy as controlling rogues.
    In my guild we have a prot warrior who never tanked illidan flames before who is in a 3v3 team with 2300 rating, he tanked them without any effort while regulars still fail at dodging flames and stuff.
    PvP>Pve in personall skill
    PvP=Pve in communication and coordination (if you are a raidleader or officer as a normal member you just do what your told)
    PvP<Pve in dedication.

    Also a common mistake is that ''losing 10 games a week'' gets you easy epics, this is as far as i can see untrue, say you are at 1500 rating all time, this gets you 300 points a week for 10 games so say around 1.5 hour/week play.
    That way it takes 1 month to get your first Item (gloves) and then you still have 1 Piece of BT pve gear in 1 month, you can't tell me you can't get 1 epic/month in pve unless you seriously fail.
    Heck i got 6/8 tier 6 and bt equiv gear in a span of 3 weeks while being in bt+sw, so all-in-all pve gives faster gear then pvp.

    Also Farming honor gear takes a total over ~300000 honor and 250 marks to get the full s2 set+Guardian gear (assuming you have the pr for it) being able to farm 2.5k honor/hour is fast so for a full set you would spend 120 hours in av to get a full pvp set which is about tk equivalent in pve dps, I have been like 100 hours in pve and i already have far better gear.

    This is all i have to say about it, ask me questions or flame if you don't like the truth, i will try to answer all
    If only "10 failures" against a boss give you one drop from him, your would be totally right.

    But since the number 1 rule in pve is "no kill, no drop"... would be interesting to see "your team will only be elegible for this week arena points with 10 WINS" instead of "10 matches". But even that isn't worth anymore since honor gear is arena gear... S1 was alread good for some classes/specs (ret pally gear! good str, int, crit!), S2 is better than that (lol at my arms/fury warrior getting enough crit, almost HIT capped and good damage with pvp gear only! lol no random drops from diferent places).

    And really good for you that your guild farms so hard T6 content to a point where they can just give all the drops/tokens for you (assuming that all other 24 players don't need anything there, it's on farm and you're the only one needing gear). Also, nice to see that you can have your T6, rings, necks and warglaive set (if you're rogue or, who knows, fury warrior) in 3 weeks since the drops aren't random lol.

    Btw, if your tank is on the level to have a chance tanking illidan, we can all assume that he's not a "Donald" (from darklegacy). Can't see why he can't learn and do well tanking him the same way he can learn what to use/activate/kill 1st in arena/bg (is he prot in arena too?).

    Well, unless you're saying he's a total spamstring pvp moron who can just change to prot and tank Illidan (even being a complete stupid who doesn't know anything).

  6. #66

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by Calaba
    Tier 6 you get like crazy, 3 pieces per slot per run, so yeh you can get full tier 6 in weeks. Other gear... less so. I'm still waiting for my Skull of Gul'dan, and we've yet to see an off-hand warglaive drop. This is "random loot is random", which it is NOT in PvP.


    True, in pvp you can choose what items to replace first while in pve you cannot, on the other hand 8/16 of the gear avaible trough high-end pve is tier 6 gear which is, like you say, easy to get

  7. #67

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by Newor
    If only "10 failures" against a boss give you one drop from him, your would be totally right.

    But since the number 1 rule in pve is "no kill, no drop"... would be interesting to see "your team will only be elegible for this week arena points with 10 WINS" instead of "10 matches". But even that isn't worth anymore since honor gear is arena gear... S1 was alread good for some classes/specs (ret pally gear! good str, int, crit!), S2 is better than that (lol at my arms/fury warrior getting enough crit, almost HIT capped and good damage with pvp gear only! lol no random drops from diferent places).

    you obviously didn't read my post, i assume your at 1500 rating with 5 wins and 5 losses/week, a team at 1400 rating gives very very very very few points and if you lose 10 games/week your rating is gonna drop to 1300 in no-time and you get like 150 points a week (or something around that number)


    Also you have never actually farmed an entire instance like BT?
    We clear BT in 2 days giving about 24 epics (12 tokens 12 items) which means 1 epic for everyone for 2 days of work, that takes 2 days of the week, in the other 3 days we raid we kill 2 bosses in SW and practise on third, meaning about 32 epics/week for a grp of 25 people..... you don't get that many items in pvp even if your at 2300 5v5 rating i believe

  8. #68

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    I, as rogue, have done all 5 man content with group: me, cat, holadin, retradin, warrior. We owned them, pre-nerf of the heroics, 3-4 heroics every night for months with this group, went from greens to every possible item and eggsalted with all fractions. Saw no problems for the palas gearing too and loved doing heroics with them. And leveling/5mans are actually just the start, the 25 man content is what pve really matters and where it is important to be viable spec/class to be in the raid

  9. #69

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by hypermode

    you obviously didn't read my post, i assume your at 1500 rating with 5 wins and 5 losses/week, a team at 1400 rating gives very very very very few points and if you lose 10 games/week your rating is gonna drop to 1300 in no-time and you get like 150 points a week (or something around that number)


    Also you have never actually farmed an entire instance like BT?
    We clear BT in 2 days giving about 24 epics (12 tokens 12 items) which means 1 epic for everyone for 2 days of work, that takes 2 days of the week, in the other 3 days we raid we kill 2 bosses in SW and practise on third, meaning about 32 epics/week for a grp of 25 people..... you don't get that many items in pvp even if your at 2300 5v5 rating i believe
    Removing the fact that they did drop less tokens before and to clear BT in 2 days you have to do a huge investiment from the start (you don't go fresh 70 direct to BT the same way you can just go fresh 70 to S2 and arena gear), the loot is still random and you have to "win your matches".

    The same way 24-man can drag you out to "fast" raid gear, you can be dragged in arena matches by good teams willing to give you good rates. But that's not the point, you're loosing only 10 matches/week (common, that's really really fast, way faster than doing BT), get some points, keep farming honor (wich IS fast) to increase your pvp (and why not pve with that? they're very good) gear. Can you keep farming a raid the entire week to get full S2/Vindicator/Guardian stuff? Ops... boss killed, your loot dropped or not, see you next week only buddy (with your guild/pug raid group of course, no "join queue" for crossrealm raids unfortunately).

    Did you get the point? Anyone can enter a BG and afk or join a arena match (anything, 2x2,3x3,5x5) without the need to win and get a high lvl gear. Not anyone can join a raid in a week and leave with the gear they want.

    As someone said once in blizzard forums "why can't I trade my T4 token for T6 gear? I can use my S1 arena points to buy S3".

  10. #70

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenDonkey
    I, as rogue, have done all 5 man content with group: me, cat, holadin, retradin, warrior. We owned them, pre-nerf of the heroics, 3-4 heroics every night for months with this group, went from greens to every possible item and eggsalted with all fractions. Saw no problems for the palas gearing too and loved doing heroics with them. And leveling/5mans are actually just the start, the 25 man content is what pve really matters and where it is important to be viable spec/class to be in the raid
    I supose they're your friends, right? With that you can probably do everything. The downside is that you can probably pug everything, your retradin friend unfortunately will have a very hard time doing that.

    Believe me, I have a retpally alt and everything he did was 90% due to my friends spending their time to group with me for instances. And I did my part in "helping them helping me" farming the fresh new S1 honor gear (so i could actually do something more than buff them).

    Even now, with full T4 LVL gear (and the real T4 parts are only the ones with +hit since only S3 gives it to ret), I have a really hard time joining a pug for heroics and even karazhan (for badge runs/rep).

    "are you a tank?", "you're healer?", "ah, we need real dps sry", "you don't have CC"...

  11. #71

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Only the cat is my friend, others were just PUG I did 2-3 instances with and we found we work perfectly togather so continued that. Yes, all were pro players, even the healer pala was taking major part in battles, stunning mobs, offtanking some and stuff. I know about 99% of people think retradins are shit performance and tbh, most of them I have seen perform bad indeed, but the few I have played seriously in the past and raid with now are very good, so this leads me think that class is harder to master and the fact that majority fails results in retris having hard time finding their place in pugs, not the fact they are nerfed/impossible to perform good

  12. #72

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    HD trailler Stream

    http://www.vimeo.com/1572322

  13. #73

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Oh god...I've been waiting so long to be able to say this to someone.


    Holy is your PvP tree! ;D

    Eat it.
    I've been dealing with people telling me as an elemental shaman that resto is my PvP tree ever since TBC came out. Now everyone knows that elemental can be a fine PvP tree, but is it the PvP tree for maximum success? Absolutely not. Before you get gear you're a free kill. Once you're geared you had better be damn good because its not a "roll face on keyboard for success" spec.
    Maybe they don't intend Ret spec to be gods of PvP? You're playing a holy based class. You heal, you shield, and you get decent raid dps. You don't get to have it all. That's just the way it is. At least you have stuns and shields that when managed correctly results in high survivability.


    Currently in beta ret paladins are raping people without them being able to do a goddamn thing about it. The result of PvP shouldn't be based on whether or not you have a dispel trinket or not. Quit your whining. Your personal DPS is far too high for a class that has such utility. Thats something shamans learned long ago with the windfury nerfs and Lightning Overload changes. It doesn't matter if you lose a lot of your utility by speccing deep into a tree. It doesn't change the fact that those skills are still available to you.

    My healing is shit as an elemental shaman, but what kind of shaman would I be if I refused to use my heals at all because they are so bad. Id be a godawful shaman.

    Also...what was that crap about getting one-shot by casters in PvP? You fail. Show me ANY caster that can one-shot ANY class geared for pvp. The best I can do on a target with 400+ resil is about 3600... Maybe...MAYBE 6k on a LO proc. Last I checked most people with that much resil were approaching 11-12k health. Not a one shot. If you're dying like that then you are bad.

  14. #74

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by wisher
    The worst PvE healing class, yeah right. Get a clue.

    l2p.
    your an idiot.

    Maybe if you'd get out of karazan you would realize paladins are AWFUL pve healers in comparison to shammies, druids, and priests.

    I mean honestly man, a YEAR ago i was saying "Paladins will be terrible healers in end game content as EVERY fight involves group/raid damage, and since paladins have ZERO raid heals they will be crappy healers in pve."

    And then they nerfed illumination and buffed spirit on other healers.

    I mean how do I kno this stuff A YEAR AGO, and you STILL blind to the most obvious things in the game.

  15. #75

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by hypermode
    Sorry but all your ''please donot nerf paladin'' noobs should really:
    A. Shut up
    B. Play Beta
    C. Accept info from people who are in beta.

    Atm in Pve, paladins are fine and many are brough to high raids, on the contrary for for instance druids where we (A 4/6 SW guild) usually bring only one while we take many more paladins and shams and coh priests.
    Pve healing paladins have been buffed very much in WOTLK Beta atm, having an aoe heal and massive mana efficientie aswell as very strong Seals which can be judged from far away and last very long.
    Tom Chilton however was talking about ret damage in the BETA, which is really over the top atm, I (Feral druid in bear with 5/5 vengefull and 60% Armor migitation in bear) Have been brough down from 21k health to 5k health while in bear in the duration of 1 HOJ from a retri paladin in WOTLK quest greens, critting me several times for 4k+ in the duration.
    I hope everyone can agree this is over the top, especially against clothies with 0 resi who are getting one-shotted atm.
    I think this is all an itemisation BUG and should be fixed, not a nerf as to what ret is now
    I am not complaning about pve ret paladins but hell lets get into this anyways.

    #1 beacon of light is garbage. This is not new, everyone could tell when it first came out it was awful. Blizzard has said they will change it, but then again, blizzard has said ALOT of things over the years now.

    In fact most holy paladins are specing into Sheath of light half way down the ret tree instead of picking up useless holy talents.

    #2 I am also a 4/6 SW guild. I am ret, and we bring 2 holys (1 of which can and specs prot) pretty much for blessings... why? Well #1 they are 100% useless raid/group healers as we all know. But they are amazing tank heals right? Well they are the best tank healers, but a priest can do ALMOST as good of job as a paladin if they know what they are doing (i.e. dont stand there casting CoH). What is the point of bringing a paladin when you can just get a priest to do the same pretty much just as well as the paladin AND can also raid heal?

    #3 If any of you read what I actaully originally posted, you would see I am mostly complaining about Ret Paladins in PvP. Without any viable combat abilities (ie interrupt, ms debuff, mana burn or anything special) we will continue to be a joke. Please go to my link that I provided and read the stuff I have on that thread.

    I hope everyone can agree this is over the top, especially against clothies with 0 resi who are getting one-shotted atm.
    I liked this part especially. Yes, ret paladin damage is prob OP and needs to be nerfed. But if you are comparing damage against clothies with 0 resil than you don't kno what ur talking about. A warrior can equally destroy a priest with 0 resil in 3 shots, so what? Fact of the matter is that resilience is apart of the game and anyone that pvps at all has 400 resil.

    Thus resilience has (and this hints at a topic in that post I linked) allowed clothies and priests and squishy targets to OVERCOME their main drawback... a 450 resil priest is just as hard to kill as a 450 resil paladin - the plate doesnt do all that much difference when u can never crit. But does pvp gear help a holy paladin resist interrupts (their main drawback)? Or does pvp gear give ret paladins a 10 second CD interrupt or MS or anything useful (their main drawback)? No.

    Seriously, read the highlights of the 20+ page post I linked on page 3 of this thread and learn something but I dont have the time or room to discuss everything here. Though believe me, I have never, ever, been wrong when dealing with this game, its balance, or its mechanics and I am so confident in that statement I can say it here and anywhere else.

    Blizzard said they were changing paladins but in comparison to the changes that other classes are getting I dont see anything all that new or game altering. You could give me a TON more dps or you can take it away. Without active abilities and buttons to press, however, I will still be useless.

  16. #76

    Re: Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack interview on Gamona

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockeroad
    I'm a raider and i think i can answer for most of us that the reason why we like longer raids is...


    BETTER CONTENT! If its longer it means theres better gear, its more fun, you get to know your raid memebers more and its, again, better content. Take BT and SWP for example: they have great gear and their fun because there long. I dont want heroics to lasts hours though, but raids yes. Because raids are meant to be done with a guild and friends and harder to pug harder content but heroics are easier to pug and should be short. Thats what i at least think
    I'm a raider. I'll offer a counter.

    They aren't fun because they're long. They're fun because they were designed well with fun encounters. Shadow Labs is long, but not really fun. Shattered Halls as well. Kara? Fun. SSC, kinda meh.

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