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  1. #21

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    The snare is really useless as it is anyways. Only class you can use it effectively is retri paladin and thats pretty much it. Im fine with the fact that they remove snare from it, at least you can keep it on druids when they run behind pillar and shapeshift out of it.

    Then again do we really need glyph for this to happen?

  2. #22

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by katholas
    funny thing is, I'm a raider. I don't honestly give half a crap about PvP in this game at all. BUT that doesn't mean i can't stick up for my PvP shadowpriesting brothers. so it's not fair that melee have to run 60ish yards to get to us? then how fair is it that they have to run... well... as many yards as it takes for the warlock to forget to cast CoEx or for the mage to mess up a frost bolt timing. As long as we are casting mindflay the melee is 100% guaranteed to get to us eventually because we arent running away during the slow period. We are also prevented from using our burst damage capabilities while maintaining our self root.

    Personally i don't find the glyph all that exciting, i've gotten quite used to the 24 yard range in raid encounters, sure some are made a little more tricky but none are overly difficult because of it. What i really wanted in exchange for the snare effect was proper scaling but yeah... that didn't happen.
    You shouldn't comment if you don't give two hoots about pvp.

  3. #23

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by lokarN
    Ok lets say you increase the range of mind flay and still keep the slow. Great for priests, but then the other classes would want a priest skill and keep saying "why dont we get the same treament". So mages get psychic scream, warlocks get flash heal, hunters get mind control, rogues get PW:S, warriors get SW, druids get PoM, Paladins get renew, shamans get PI.

    I'll cut to the end, when you are done with the game there will only be one class so when you create a char the only thing you chose is your favorite colour.
    An i awant Snear that stays after i have chaneled! like frost shock so i could actualy cast a spell against runners cos they slowed down but no i cant and as soon the mindflay stops they are out of range! so give mindflay to evryone and remove the frost sock curse of exhaustion and others if you realy wana be fair on that side.

  4. #24

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    the thing with mindflay snare is that it slows your own movement by 50% instead of slowing your enemy. Thats what really makes it useless. Only thing the snare is good for is linking mobs after you use Psychic sream so they wont run away.

  5. #25

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Shadowpriests are not lacking in PvP right now. You can argue this if you want, but I play with a shadow priest in 2's, 3's, and 5's, and we're bouncing around the 1900 bracket after only playing together for a month. Not only this, but sp/ua lock is inferior to rogue/sp and mage/sp, so success is not that hard to obtain.

    If anything was to blame for a shadow being a lack-lustre pvp spec, it would be the lack of longevity, not the range on mindflay.

  6. #26

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    I think people forget about the mana cost associated with MF...

    If MF was a 30yd ranged it would be so ridiculously OP when you evaluate the effect, damage and cost of it.

    I'd like to know why every class has to have their ranged spells at the same base range, isn't the idea to give different classes different abilities for different costs so there is diversity in the game? All I ever wanted was some spell pushback resistance for MF because once you're hamstrung or whatever from melee MF becomes a nasty target to get interrupted. I'm not sure I like the changes to spell pushback, however we have gained Dispersion and a horror effect from our AoE fear so I think we'll stand up better against melee in other ways.

    In general people need to stop the QQ and the fact that this class gets this ability isn't a constructive argument as to why MF or anything else should change.

  7. #27

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    I think people forget about the mana cost associated with MF...

    If MF was a 30yd ranged it would be so ridiculously OP when you evaluate the effect, damage and cost of it.

    I'd like to know why every class has to have their ranged spells at the same base range, isn't the idea to give different classes different abilities for different costs so there is diversity in the game? All I ever wanted was some spell pushback resistance for MF because once you're hamstrung or whatever from melee MF becomes a nasty target to get interrupted. I'm not sure I like the changes to spell pushback, however we have gained Dispersion and a horror effect from our AoE fear so I think we'll stand up better against melee in other ways.

    In general people need to stop the QQ and the fact that this class gets this ability isn't a constructive argument as to why MF or anything else should change.
    i dont like to QQ ither but lets face it sp dont have any effective means of Snearing other players down while they could do something to that player or eaven move theme selfs.

  8. #28

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    I finished my first calculations using recout:

    For Shadow Worth Pain, the damage increase is about 12-15%
    For Vampiric Touch, it's about 1-3% (caused by the additional spelldmg)
    For Mind Blast, some crits are going over 4k, the overalldmg is increased by 8-10%
    For shadow Worth Death, the crits are slightly below 4k, the overalldmg is also increased by 5-8%
    Actually Shadow Worth death isn't causing any dmg to ourselwes at the moment :P

    Finally Mindflay. Still no crits ^^, but a dmg increase about 10-15% depending on how many of your dots are upon the target.

    After all, a nice DPS increase of nearby 20%, considering Raid environment end single target nuking, it might be about 25-30% more dmg, but, we have 60% nerved manareg, that makes then something about a 10-15% loss of manareg.

    The tests have been done with a lvl 70 shadow priest t5/t6 gear stats without any buffs or potions.

    I'll do additional tests in PVP environment when the Beta Servers are less used then now

  9. #29

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    It kind a is good argument since there are more classes in this game than shadowpriest and way or another each class competes with eachother.

  10. #30

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    I personally think its better for pvp usage than the original one so dont get things mixed here. Just wondering do you really need glyph to remove effects when you should add them with glyphs...

  11. #31

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    The Glyph discussion could be concluded by "get arena Partners able to slow down ennemeies like rogue, take the glyph and increase your burst dmg", considering the calculations I've made just above...

  12. #32

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Screw the snare, screw the range, I want decent spell damage coeffeciency on Mind Flay. :'(
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    But we're worried that logic might not lead to the best game.

  13. #33

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    dont forget that mindflay can proc blackout, so ur mindflay can snare the enemy and stun at the same time, if it had a longer range it would simply b to imba, besides u can fear a melee at ur feet easily(dont qq about cd plz and then u cant do anything l2p) besides, arena isnt 1v1 what is ur partner doing meanwhile ur getting wtfpwnt? get a new partner imo
    I participated in the legendary BACON thread.

  14. #34

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Thanks Pewz007 it all looks so clear now!!! Now i will finally succeed in pvp!

  15. #35

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Removing mindflay snare cuts the channel so it wont get applied instantly.

  16. #36

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karpalo
    Thanks Pewz007 it all looks so clear now!!! Now i will finally succeed in pvp!
    nice reply very constructive to the topic
    I participated in the legendary BACON thread.

  17. #37

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    I think people forget about the mana cost associated with MF...

    If MF was a 30yd ranged it would be so ridiculously OP when you evaluate the effect, damage and cost of it.

    I'd like to know why every class has to have their ranged spells at the same base range, isn't the idea to give different classes different abilities for different costs so there is diversity in the game? All I ever wanted was some spell pushback resistance for MF because once you're hamstrung or whatever from melee MF becomes a nasty target to get interrupted. I'm not sure I like the changes to spell pushback, however we have gained Dispersion and a horror effect from our AoE fear so I think we'll stand up better against melee in other ways.

    In general people need to stop the QQ and the fact that this class gets this ability isn't a constructive argument as to why MF or anything else should change.
    the reason mind flay had a low mana cost is because SW:P and Mind Blast have a huge mana cost
    if mind blast had the mana cost of say.. fireball, it'd be impossible for a priest to sustain his mana pool

    especially after they also had Vampiric Touch thrown in, which is also a heavy mana cost spell

    using DoTs in combination with a nuke(in this case MB and MF) drains your mana pool quite drastically

    the reason the warlock's primary nuke has a high mana cost(shadowbolt vs mind flay) is because warlock essentially have infinite mana, unlike priests, who, once they run dry can't do anything but pop that mana potion(in WotLK they do get their own little anti melee CloS that also restores health and mana, and in TBC they also got the shadowfiend, but that was way before the mind flay mana cost was decided, so they don't really count in influenced the low mana cost of mind flay)

  18. #38

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Hey , you'r not FORCED to use the glyph , so if you do pvp then use normal mind flay , if you'r doing something else that don't need 50% slow then use the glyph , ur doing like you MUST use the glyph

  19. #39

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maffe
    Hey , you'r not FORCED to use the glyph , so if you do pvp then use normal mind flay , if you'r doing something else that don't need 50% slow then use the glyph , ur doing like you MUST use the glyph
    well, SPs will sorta have to when doing PvE, and then they lose a glyph spot, they could have used on something else

  20. #40

    Re: Mind flay, yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic018
    Mindflay just prooves why shadow priests are turning in pve as in pvp just the other way around the clock.

    In PVE the base dmg of Mind Flay sounds pretty nice at the beginning, the SP's are the best dmgdealers ingame. In the endgame is exactly the other way around.

    Same for PVP, in low arena ratings or in battlegrounds, it's really useful, but in finally in the high brackets it's just embarrasing.

    Personally I stopped playing Arena and PVP as shadow in TBC, and skilled therefore to discipline, and I doubt this is gonna change in WotLK.

    Concerning PVE, I play shadow most of the time, sometimes Healer. Since 2 days, I'm testing some stuff in the Beta. There is a DPS increase. For example our Shadow Word Pain is quite amazing. Also Mindfly is doing more dmg than usual thanks to the new talents, but I doubt that it might be enough to reach the dmg amounts of Hunters Mages Warlocks...

    I'll make some tests now trying to calculate the effective DPS increase...

    My best friend plays shadowpriest and he is a gladiator and has the venge drake.. he beats s4 rogue and s4 warrior together.. just don't talk about above ratings.. (armory gives me error o.O) It's a frikin great spell.. and the glyph sucks.


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