1. #1

    Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    Hello

    I know that this issue is well spoken, but would like the opinion of people who are playing much beta, I explain, people who can confirm what I am going to ask as it is currently beta WOTLK.

    Is the Shadow Priest the largest generator of mana now? Is it passed in regenerating mana by another class (retries Pala, Ice mage, Survival Hunter ...)?.

    Sorry for insisting so much on this topic, but I'm going level up a priest with the hope of Raid with him, serious and very sad that I do not get in the raids that he Shadow Priest has become useless.

    A greeting

  2. #2

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    You'd still be brought for the debuffs

  3. #3

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    Since i doubt anyone in the beta has the options to test every1 of those mana-giving characters, I still think that Spriest will be the nr.1 managenerator in raids.
    Vampiric Touch just gives right now 2% mana back, but blizz already stated that according to their calculations it still might be too high.

    But, it is too early to say who is the best.. we will only know when WotLK actually hits live and everyone will start raiding

    I still hope that Spriest will give the most mana, since this is actually their only real role in the raid 0_o

  4. #4

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    I didn't understand it

  5. #5

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    I don't think Shadow Priests are going to be useless. I mean if you read what the Blue had to say about class stacking, Shadow Priests will still be used a lot. Though they may not pull as much mana as another class or so on, they will probably be more useful.

    As he said Survival Hunter, Ret Pallies, and Shadow Priests all have mana regen abilities. And all of their abilities will hit the raid, and will all "stack", the only thing to worry about is now having 2 shadow priests won't be as useful as having 1 SP and 1 Ret Pally. They will both bring Mana Regen to the raid, but they will also bring different buffs from each other. Sure 2 SPs will pull a lot of mana, but the debuffs they do don't stack, but the debuffs an SP and Ret Pally do, do stack.

  6. #6

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    Shadow priests are like most utility classes: Most raids want one of them. One shadow priest can keep 4 other casters at high mana for a long time. Makes it much easier on the druids, they can take turns innervating the SPriest instead of the other casters. Their debuffs are a boon to warlocks too.

  7. #7

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    Shadow priest = 5% spell damage for the raid and 10% shadow damage. Also, while the amount of mana returned is now only 2%, the dps has been increased quite a bit.

    While it is certain that Shadow priests won't be the unique mana battery in wotlk, they'll still be a good one and certainly won't be useless. Honestly, you should stop and think before asking question that includes the "class Y is dead/useless" train of thought. It's completely the opposite of what Blizzard is trying to do (levelling the playfield in order to give everyone an equal chance)

  8. #8

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    Blizz realises the problem and they promised us tweaks so could possible us to get increased scaling or more utility. Hard to say which side they are gonna go but many classes still need toning down ie. survival hunter dps is ridicilous atm.

  9. #9

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    blizz doesn't want classes to be needed, but persons to be wanted. so a shadow could be replaced mana-vice by a ret/sv-hunt and the debuff is just missing.

    it has been stated over and over again that there is something like 11 people in a raid bringing unique abilities that most see as "necesssary" but that the other 14 slots is for you to give out (as RL) for people who play well, or people you like or other people that bring other buffs/debuffs that you think would make it easier.

    i basicly love the approach because in my guild there is currently a lot of raids not being untertaken because some class with unique abilities just so happens to not at all be there at that day.
    Greetings Undead. Wonderful day to be alive, isn't it?

  10. #10

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    It is not yet clear how exactly raid mana regeneration will work in WotLK. There will definitely be changes to the status quo.
    Most 25 man raids and many 10 man raids will probably want a shadow priest. More than one shadow priest per raid will likely be less common than now, though. Which is a good thing, since the demand for shadow priests was out of proportion in TBC, considering it is only one of 27 talent trees.

    If you enjoy the shadow priest, you should not let worries about being able to raid prevent you from playing one. Shadow priests will not be useless.

  11. #11

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    1 will be brought, which is all we can ask for.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    But we're worried that logic might not lead to the best game.

  12. #12

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xs
    You'd still be brought for the debuffs
    It remains to be seen if 5% spell damage increase will be worth bringing a class with 2/3 to 1/2 the DPS, as well as yless mana regen than a Frost Mage.

    DPS warlocks are all going fire, so the days of Shadow Vulnerability being needed in raids is soon to be past.

  13. #13

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    Replying to the poster above me...

    -5% is always worth it...
    -Dk's do some shadow dmg, 10% is worth it for them
    -DESTRO locks will do fire, but aff and demon will do shadow they want that 10%, both of which blizz has stated will be very nice in raids. (they will be bringing some interesting buffs)
    -Mages on restore mana when their elemental is out, i've seen that thing get one shot plenty of time by aoe, shadowpriest regen is passive...
    -Our dps is going to be much more competitive...
    -Changes made to threat will allow for more passive healing, I personally know that my healing has sometimes made the difference in a kill or not...(also thats how we judge new healers, if i outheal them ever they dont make it)


    just because you have more options doesnt mean one of those options is going to be completely cut out

  14. #14

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    Quote Originally Posted by rikken
    Replying to the poster above me...

    -5% is always worth it...
    -Dk's do some shadow dmg, 10% is worth it for them
    -DESTRO locks will do fire, but aff and demon will do shadow they want that 10%, both of which blizz has stated will be very nice in raids. (they will be bringing some interesting buffs)
    -Mages on restore mana when their elemental is out, i've seen that thing get one shot plenty of time by aoe, shadowpriest regen is passive...
    -Our dps is going to be much more competitive...
    -Changes made to threat will allow for more passive healing, I personally know that my healing has sometimes made the difference in a kill or not...(also thats how we judge new healers, if i outheal them ever they dont make it)


    just because you have more options doesnt mean one of those options is going to be completely cut out
    You make good points, but there's some things I'd like to point out. Assuming say, 7 healers, three melee tanks, a couple rogues, hunters, death knights as well as your off-spec dps warrs/feral druids/enh shamans, you have 10 spell damage dps maximum. If this is the case, then the 5% increase across all of them will make up for a 50% deficit in spriest DPS barely. But as soon as one of them is switched out the gap widens.

    DKs will do largely physical damage, with shadow as an aside. Buffs like 5% crit, windfury, agil/strength, TSA, are all more valuable to them.

    Warlocks are in a confused state right now. Blizzard has stated that they will be buff sponges, bring little utility or buffs but high dps. They have also stated that Fire will be the highest DPS spec. Unless one of these two statements changes, you are much more likely to see two Fire locks in a min/max raid than you are to see on Demo and one Destro, especially since Demo is still mostly a pvp spec.

    It is not safe to assume that the elemental will get one-shotted regularly. As far as I can tell the mana is restored to the raid regardless of range, it's reasonable to assume that it can be parked in a corner, well away from AoE. Also, spriests are capable of dying to, and once they're dead they can't be resummoned either immediately or in a coupe minutes unless you want to burn the battle rezz.

    Another confused subject is how competitive spriest dps is going to be. Estimates have our damage increase as being anywhere from 20-40%, which is great, but at the same time the base scaling issues priests have (Mind Flay coefficient, atrocious returns from crit and haste) have not been fixed, and will undoubtely return at the T8/9 level. Also, other DPS classes are getting their damage increased correspondingly. It's unreasonable to think that priest dps will ever be truly competitive, given that it's an off-spec. I don't necessarily agree with this reasoning, but it's there.

    Spriests are rarely brought in because their healing is needed, I suppose with one or two exceptions. It's great that you have that tryout system with your guild, (it's kind of fun to think about, I might have to try it) but most guilds don't operate their priests that way.

    I'm saying all this with a certainty that there are more changes coming in beta (there was a blue post recently to this effect) but right now I'm not confident about the state of shadowpriests compared to a Frost Mage, or now that I think of it, a survival hunter, who are going to be bringing very strong DPS as well as a passive mana regen.

  15. #15

    Re: Shadow Priest Useless in Raid (25)?

    My experience on the beta servers showed, that your DPS increase is about 25-30% in a raid without changing anything on your gear. If inner fire will buff spellpower too soon, this increase might in a lvl 80 raid be about 40%-50%. The only point in not taking a shadow priest is the manareg nerf. I think 3% down is too mich. If they would set it to 3%, evrything might be ok. We will still be able to regenerate as much mana as before thanks to the DPS increase.

    But, I'd prefer something different. There is also the possibility in leaving the mana reg at 2% and give Mind Flay the right coefficiant and a chance to crit, just like mages. So as shadow priest, you'll probalby don't Bother about crit because of your dots, and you could f.a. give Mindflay the default crit chance without any talent increasing it. So the SP's won't be "overpowered", but having an acceptable manareg and a competitive DPS...

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