Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    I wonder why noone else has brought up this "issue" yet, especially on the Beta Forums.

    At first, here are the Numbers for the LvL 80 Ranks of both spells:

    Circle of Healing Rank 7:

    Heals up to 5 friendly party or raid members within 15 yards of the target for 684 to 756.
    21% of base mana, 40 yd range, Instant cast

    Flourish Rank 4:

    Heals up to 5 friendly party or raid members within 15 yards of the target for 4410 over 7 sec. The amount healed is applied quickly at first, and slows down as the Flourish reaches its full duration.
    32% of base mana, 40 yd range, Instant cast

    Not taking any Bonus from Spellpower into Account Flourish already heals for about 6 Times the amount that Circle of Healing does.

    That means in order to get the same amount of Healing a Holy Priest would have to spam Circle of Healing 5-6 Times (7.5 to 9 Seconds), putting the Mana cost to at least 3 times as much as that of a single cast of Flourish.

    This also means that the Priest is doing nothing else during that time, while the Druid would just cast that one Flourish and could afterwards continue healing the MT.

    Of course those numbers are not 100% accurate considering Spellpower Bonuses. But even those would work in favour of the Druid as Circle of Healing only gets 25% of Bonus Spellpower and Flourish as a 7 Second HoT will surely get a much larger Bonus from Spellpower. ( 5 Casts of CoH giving 125% Bonus while a 7 Second HoT will probably have a 100% Bonus ?)

    Anyway even if my numbers are a bit off, Flourish still is much more Mana efficient and still gives MORE Healing per Second than pure CoH spam would give. Who in their right mind would use a Priest for Group Heal when there's a Druid around who could do it that much better ?!





  2. #2

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    u got the point, i guess flourish will be utterly nerfed
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  3. #3
    Koumaru
    Guest

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Seems to be fairly in line with Nourish versus Flash Heal...

    In other words: "What the hell does Blizzard have against Holy priests?"

    (I play a druid.)

  4. #4

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Guys, maybe you should look at the rest of the talents priests and druids get. Priests get some nice stuff from Test of Faith and Divine Providence, as well as similar general healing bonuses similar to druids' in power from other talents; i really think you're taking this out of context.

    Also, notice the HoT on flourish gets weaker as the effect continues? Most likely druids will be overwriting their own flourishes to get more power out of it, dramatically reducing the healing per mana.

  5. #5

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Thing is that Blizzard is promoting the Discipline for Priest in PvE quite a lot in Wrath.
    Priest will heal a lot different in Wrath.

    I found that statement funny, yes it will be more efficient, but it is in no way near as good as holy still is, and as for healing differently there are some changes due to new talents but things are not that different. Holy is still the pve spec and until blizz does something drastic to the disp tree it is going to remain the PVP spec.

  6. #6
    Aerv
    Guest

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    The Question is also how much will be Overheal. Priester have their intellegent COH so lowest targets will be healed and shamans spam their chain heal then maybe one player gets healed up by a direct spell and so on. Think it is a powerfull spell but in raidaction it will loose ab bit of its power.

  7. #7

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    hot != instant

    healing overtime spells are generally 'weaker' than instant heals.. plus hots dont crit and are dispellable (and now corruptable by dk's)
    It's just a game.

  8. #8

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Meh.

    HoTs always cost less mana per heal, especially in the druid world. HoTs are meant to do a lot of healing while allowing the caster to do something else with his GCDs.

    Obviously, there are benefits to flourish - but there are also many things that aren't so great.





    The bad: For not much mana, the druid will be able to throw a hot on may people at once, most of which will be wasted healing overridden by chain heal and CoH, which will fill health bars before flourish has a chance to do most of its healing. It will not be used pre-emptively, like a lot of other HoTs due to the front loading which means that it is purely reactive - which is not great for HoTs. If multiple are taking damage, a HoT isn't the ideal way to deal with that.

    The good: For not much mana, the druid will be able to throw a hot on many people at once. It will be great in a time or percentage based splash damage+silence situation. It will be a great supplement to other classes' raid heals. It will not replace other AoE heals, or be the best. It is a very situational spell, and will be mostly used to help priests and shaman out in heavy splash damage encounters.

    Don't complain, you still do it best - but your job will be a little bit easier now.


  9. #9

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    You just answered yourself.
    Yes it will be more efficient.

    The fact of the matter is that anyone who would be Disp in a raid would be dumb so it would be useless to even try. So I dont see how that is promoting disp lol, so no I didnt answer myself. The changes made were made for mana efficiency probs in PVP not for PVE.
    CoH btw should have its mana cost reduced to smooth out its lack of healing against flourish. They will more than likely nerf flourish though, druids are already OP in beta.

  10. #10

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Quote Originally Posted by Amgyn
    hot != instant

    healing overtime spells are generally 'weaker' than instant heals.. plus hots dont crit and are dispellable (and now corruptable by dk's)
    they are no longer corruptible. plague strike (or scourge strike, if deep unholy) will remove one HoT per strike, max is 2 strikes per 10 seconds at the cost of one unholy rune per strike. however, they also apply the blood plague, which has a 50% chance per tick of removing a HoT on the target
    all hail king frost strike

  11. #11

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Another thing to consider is the priests are supposed to have more + healing on their gear than any other class in Wrath so that might make CoH actually almost as good. Blizz should still reduce the mana cost :/.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Mortisia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Same country as Radek Zelenka
    Posts
    1,176

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Quote Originally Posted by Amgyn
    hot != instant

    healing overtime spells are generally 'weaker' than instant heals.. plus hots dont crit and are dispellable (and now corruptable by dk's)
    WoW isn't only about PvP and there realy isn't that many bosses which actually dispell stuff from people.

    "Dude, why are you dead again?" "Because I'm raid-leading, doh..."
    Mess with the best, die like the rest...
    >>>Goes by name Samyaza<<<

  13. #13

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Quote Originally Posted by Justarius
    The fact of the matter is that anyone who would be Disp in a raid would be dumb so it would be useless to even try.
    Not that i know enough about priests to say for sure, but supposing that holy won't get spirit anymore, having one disc priest bringing spirit, Divine Aegis and Grace does seem quite nice and might be able to make up for the lack of pure healing power they have.

  14. #14

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Quote Originally Posted by Maja24
    ( 5 Casts of CoH giving 125% Bonus while a 7 Second HoT will probably have a 100% Bonus ?)
    Using the duration/15 (for over time spells) * 0.5 (aoe) rule, Flourish will most likely have a 23% bonus, CoH currently has a 21.42% bonus.
    “In order to make apple pie from scratch, you must first make the Universe.” Carl Sagan

  15. #15

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Quote Originally Posted by Elektrik
    Meh.

    HoTs always cost less mana per heal, especially in the druid world. HoTs are meant to do a lot of healing while allowing the caster to do something else with his GCDs.

    Obviously, there are benefits to flourish - but there are also many things that aren't so great.


    The bad: For not much mana, the druid will be able to throw a hot on may people at once, most of which will be wasted healing overridden by chain heal and CoH, which will fill health bars before flourish has a chance to do most of its healing. It will not be used pre-emptively, like a lot of other HoTs due to the front loading which means that it is purely reactive - which is not great for HoTs. If multiple are taking damage, a HoT isn't the ideal way to deal with that.
    The issue i have with this is that usually a HoT should always heal for LESS health per second than direct heal spams.

    The most potent HoT until now, a 3-stacked Lifebloom, still doesnt heal for as much health per second as a Greater Heal cast, while Flourish heals for more health than CoH spam. That's exactly my point. Leaving out the whole mana efficiency discussion, a HoT should be weaker because it allows you to do other things after it is cast, just like you posted.

    About your "The Bad" Points:

    If you are having issues with other Group Healers making Flourish useless, then that is just a poor Raidhealing setup without clear
    tasks for everyone. And just as posted before the Flourish will actually Top off people faster than CoH.

    Last but not least, your argument about Flourish being reactive being a bad thing is flawed. Yes, on a Tank you would want a HoT to not be reactive, but on Raid Healing it's a non issue especially considering how fast Flourish can heal people back up to 100%.

  16. #16

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    I don't see any issue at the moment with how flourish works, yes it heals more and it front loads most of it's healing, but the frontload isn't that great as people assume it is in my opinion.

    _____________________________________________
    *taken from youtube*
    i am a resto druid in wotlk beta
    Flourish tick every sec :
    heals 436, 399, 361, 324, 286, 249, 211 as for rank 1
    _____________________________________________

    first tick 19.24%
    second tick 17.68%
    third tick 15.93%

    so in 3sec it will heal ~53% - 2337 - without spell power or bonus talents

    I might have calculated wrong, but using the above numbers i think i managed to do right :P

    CoH will be 684-756 per cast / crit 1026-1134

    I don't know how the spell power will be applied to Flourish, although i believe it will get a bigger scaling coefficient at starting tics then the ending ones, it will have craptastic scaling in the other case.Anyway the spell power scaling of the two spells shouldn't be drastic in comparison.

    Now, CoH can crit and costs less mana, lots of less mana.
    Priests will be capable of spamming more CoH-s with better haste, Druids can just overwrite Flourish faster with it's gigantic mana cost, haste won't make it tick faster.

    You say Druids can cast it and do something else, yes they can do it, that doesn't mean their hots should heal bad because they can, most of hot healing is overhealing in any case, as ppl tend to be topped off before they tick for their full duration.

    If you are having issues with other Group Healers making Flourish useless, then that is just a poor Raidhealing setup without clear
    tasks for everyone. And just as posted before the Flourish will actually Top off people faster than CoH.
    How do you make a raidhealing setup for aoe dmg ? Sorry if I'm a bit noob here, but i thought it can't be made better then just telling who raid heals aoe dmg.

    As i see it the two spells are ok in my eyes, maybe CoH needs to get it's base healing a bit immproved but it's mana cost shouldn't be reduced in any case as it's only 21% base compared to 32% of Flourish. And Flourish is fine as it is as it will overheal for the most part like all hots do, if it had lower healing it would simply be bad and not heal enough, the hot would be outhealed by CoH by even a larger part.

    By the high mana cost and way Flourish works we can see it's not really intended to be a spell that is spammed lightly while CoH is in it's current implementation.

    Anyway it's still beta and things change. I stated my opinion the two spells seem pretty balanced out for me, i ofc might be totaly wrong, but i thought i'll add something to the debate.

    Edit:
    Forgot that Druids get 20% mana reduction in ToL form, still i believe the mana cost of Flourish will be somewhat greater then CoH, although this is making it a bit more spamable, still the hot part is hindering mass spam even although it's front loaded.

  17. #17

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    first: druid has lower base mana, which means given same %, your spells will be cheaper, with ToL and base mana on 70, flourish would cost 606 mana, CoH 550 mana, not considering any other -mana, since i guess both classes have same from other talents (correct me here, my druid always was feral, dont have an idea on -% mana talents)

    second: we dont know yet, what scalling it will have, so we cant really say much about it, but without +SP its in 3s window 2xbetter than critted CoH, so given overestimated 25% critchance, its somewhere near 3,5x better, with whatever scalling it will have this number will drop, and with haste even more, tho CoH will hardly be better till priest got CoH to 1s GCD , which is not gonna happen, and have glyph for it, also more haste = bigger manasink for priest

    but ofc, there are different situations, where one or another could be better, for sure, id think, that for example on bloodboil CoH will be superior to flourish, but for felmyst aura, flourish would be superior to CoH

  18. #18

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    also keep in mind druid's now get omen of clarity to work with spells too.

    priests have been the top of the healing totem pole for a long time, now that a druid has a more effective raid heal, the priests cry about it.

    priests are going to be more direct healers in wotlk from the looks of it. as will shamans. (no higher rank of chain heal)

    maybe now i wont be a buffer healer anymore and actually be a effective, strong raid healer

  19. #19

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Personally, I think we're just going around and around again about whom is going to be the best end game healer, and the only true answer is:

    All of them.

    If you do not have 1/ea type of healer in your raid, you are gimping yourself, and your fellow raiders. Personally, in T5, we had 4-5 paladin healers, and maybe 1 druid, 1 priest (for about a month, we were priestless) and 1-2 shamans.

    In T6, the focus has changed, its now 2-3 paladins, 3-4 shamans, 1-2 priests and 1-2 druids.

    Assuming T7-9 follow the same formula of increasingly more "raid" based dmg instead of just MT dmg, then you're going to see the same type of scenario. Guilds are going to recruit based on their current content, then have to re-recruit based on their change from T7-8 and 8-9.

    Personally I think the way things are going, is good for ALL the healing classes. They each get some form of effective direct heal and a HoT in some form or another. Allowing more flexibility as you do 10 man, and 25 man content both.

    5 man's, I would never take a druid healer as a paladin tank, the hots were never enough to keep me up for the psychotic way I tanked 5 mans. Now, with some changes, I might be inclined to take them along, they're making everything more well rounded. I don't need CC, I need a healer with strong direct heals. Now a druid can be that healer more so than in TBC. But a priest still handles that job just as well.

    With warriors getting some sort of AOE tank ability, they'll be wanted for instances like Shattered Halls, where anymore, LFG is LF Pally Tank for Shat Halls.

    I guess it all comes down to your focus on the game, is the glass 1/2 empty, or 1/2 full, if its 1/2 empty to you, do you wanna fill the other 1/2 with your tears?
    I play the class in WotLK that is the worst spec class, that got nerfed, while all the other spec's got buffed.* Which class is that?* All of them of course...if you believe forum posts

  20. #20

    Re: Circle of Healing vs. Flourish

    Coh = 41 point talent
    Flourish = 51 point talent



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •