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  1. #101

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    Quote Originally Posted by Moar Pew Pew
    I actually burst out laughing reading that. Kudos. ^_^
    You would you fucking roleplaying freak!

    *Rawberry hides his MASSIVE collection of Adnd books.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  2. #102

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    You would you fucking roleplaying freak!

    *Rawberry hides his MASSIVE collection of Adnd books.
    Haha, nice.


  3. #103

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    By the way have you see the new Aspect of the Viper?
    They stole our skill!!!

    WEll not the same but you know what i mean
    YOU FACE NOT MALCHEZAR ALONE, BUT THE LEGIONS I COMMAND!

  4. #104

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    so anywho now that it has gone live in beta... whats the verdict? shitty as everyone thought?
    Xphius 80 Paladin
    Xanxic 80 Druid
    Xzain 80 DeathKnight
    Karvex 80 Hunter

  5. #105

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    Hmm guys, do you think they won't notice that we are as broken as hell atm?
    YOU FACE NOT MALCHEZAR ALONE, BUT THE LEGIONS I COMMAND!

  6. #106

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    on a side not even though toughness is HELLA sexy i cant fit it into my build... had to go benidiction now instead of might.
    Xphius 80 Paladin
    Xanxic 80 Druid
    Xzain 80 DeathKnight
    Karvex 80 Hunter

  7. #107
    Dreadlord meliancill's Avatar
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    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    guys go look at the paladin skills in mmo beffor you spec out of might. come on now look beffor you spec

  8. #108

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    nono dont get me wrong its hella sexy like i said. but it doesnt matter if i had 4k AP if i can only attack a few times in pvp b4 completly oom.
    Xphius 80 Paladin
    Xanxic 80 Druid
    Xzain 80 DeathKnight
    Karvex 80 Hunter

  9. #109

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    Also consider the following: BOM is actually a great buff to the ability, but will NOT stack with Battle shout. possible this is no longer required for raiding spec? although I do not know too many warriors that have full imp BS as a PVP spec I know a few take it for Raiding spec. And also there are 4 paladin buffs. with 25 mans being possibly 1 ret/prot/holy spot(at most) should we consider even taking the tree anymore? Warriors have 2 buffing shouts... Battle and Command, and command no longer stacks with Warlock imp. Perhaps this will be more for 5 man spec and Arenas...

  10. #110

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    Talents

    * Judgements of the Wise (Tier 6) changed to: Your Judgement spells have a 33/66/100% chance to grant up to 10 party or raid members mana regeneration equal to 0.5% of their maximum mana per second.
    Great so they did change it like we expected them to. Went from a talent that sustained the paladin while dpsing, to a talent that only benefits the raid.

    Ah well, not much else to say :x

    I'm really hoping they add the original effect for paladins only and then give the 10 people in the raid the buff..
    We are warriors, born from the light
    An army for freedom, defenders of life
    Warriors, euphoria will rise
    Returning from darkness we bury all lies

  11. #111

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    I posted this elsewhere, but perhaps they could add at least Sanctified Judgement as an additional effect for the high teir? even at 7k mana, thats 35mp every second or 175mp5 constant barely even covering the judgement in the rotation T_T.

  12. #112

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    For PVE, in a normal raid combat situation:

    Without Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath and Hammer of Wrath, in 60 sec you will make a maximum of :

    10 x Crusader Strike (10 x 219 mana = 2190 mana)
    6 x Divine Storm (6 x 878 mana = 5268 mana)
    8 x Judgements = (8 x 351 mana = 2808 mana)
    1 Seal = 615 mana

    So we will use a total of 10800 mana. ( of course this will be a little lower as every 4 Crusader Strike we will have Judgement and CS on the same CD and every 5 CS we will CS and Divine Storm on the same CD, and every 5 Judgments we will have Judgment and Divine Storm on the same CD)

    In 60 sec we will regenerate mana as follow:

    109 mp5 from BoW = 1308
    175 mp5 from Judgement of the Wise (considering a 7000 maximum mana ) = 2100

    So a total of 3408 mana.

    BUT people are forgetting that a retrib pala or another pala will use Judgement of Wisdom that restores 350-400 mana (at least for me at level 73) and has a 50% (as far as I konw and tested on beta) chance to proc with every melee swing (including Crusader Stike and Divine Storm that now can proc). So in a minute there are about 20 white swings (with a 3.0 two-hander - and yes we will have only 3.0 considering the haste from raid buffs - see DK and shamans buffs + gear and swift retribution aura) + 10 CS and 6 Divine Storm. That is 36 melee attacks. This means that with a 50% chance to proc, Judgement of Wisdom will give 16 x 375 mana = 6000 mana.

    So we will have 3408 + 6000 = 9408 mana. That's much better. Considering you can use mana potion (once per fight) + Divine Plea once every 5 min (While channeling this spell, you gain 50% of your total mana over 6 sec.) + a possible Mana Spring Totem (if it stacks) + Mana tide totem, we can say, for PVE, retrib pala will have enough mana and flexibility to use all damaging spells, including Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath. Also do not forget we can use Seal of Wisdom (about 350-400 mana), that has a 50% proc (so in 30 sec combined with Judgement of Wisdom we can have all mana back) + in AOE situation when you use Divine storm, combined with Seal of Wisdom you can have 2-3 procs (so you gain 700-1100 mana back only from the seal). In conclusion for PVE I dont think mana will be a problem. Every mana dpser loose mana in a fight and at one point has to decide and choose the best spells and abilities it will use. So does paladins. Get over it.

    But in PVP retrib pala will have big problems with mana. I just hope the 4 set arena gear bonus will be something that will give us mana back (like it was Judgement of the Wise before - a percent of the damage done by the Judgment). Then PVP retrib pala will be fine too.

  13. #113

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    Quote Originally Posted by luxian
    For PVE, in a normal raid combat situation:

    Without Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath and Hammer of Wrath, in 60 sec you will make a maximum of :

    10 x Crusader Strike (10 x 219 mana = 2190 mana)
    6 x Divine Storm (6 x 878 mana = 5268 mana)
    8 x Judgements = (8 x 351 mana = 2808 mana)
    1 Seal = 615 mana

    So we will use a total of 10800 mana. ( of course this will be a little lower as every 4 Crusader Strike we will have Judgement and CS on the same CD and every 5 CS we will CS and Divine Storm on the same CD, and every 5 Judgments we will have Judgment and Divine Storm on the same CD)

    In 60 sec we will regenerate mana as follow:

    109 mp5 from BoW = 1308
    175 mp5 from Judgement of the Wise (considering a 7000 maximum mana ) = 2100

    So a total of 3408 mana.

    BUT people are forgetting that a retrib pala or another pala will use Judgement of Wisdom that restores 350-400 mana (at least for me at level 73) and has a 50% (as far as I konw and tested on beta) chance to proc with every melee swing (including Crusader Stike and Divine Storm that now can proc). So in a minute there are about 20 white swings (with a 3.0 two-hander - and yes we will have only 3.0 considering the haste from raid buffs - see DK and shamans buffs + gear and swift retribution aura) + 10 CS and 6 Divine Storm. That is 36 melee attacks. This means that with a 50% chance to proc, Judgement of Wisdom will give 16 x 375 mana = 6000 mana.

    So we will have 3408 + 6000 = 9408 mana. That's much better. Considering you can use mana potion (once per fight) + Divine Plea once every 5 min (While channeling this spell, you gain 50% of your total mana over 6 sec.) + a possible Mana Spring Totem (if it stacks) + Mana tide totem, we can say, for PVE, retrib pala will have enough mana and flexibility to use all damaging spells, including Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath. Also do not for get we can use Seal of Wisdom (about 350-400 mana), that has a 50% proc (so in 30 sec combined with Judgement of Wisdom we can have all mana back) + in AOE situation when you use Divine storm, combined with Seal of Wisdom you can have 2-3 procs (so you gain 700-1100 mana back only from the seal). In conclusion for PVE I dont think mana will be a problem. Every mana dpser loose mana in a fight and at one point has to decide and choose the best spells and abilities it will use. So does paladins. Get over it.

    But in PVP retrib pala will have big problems with mana. I just hope the 4 set arena gear bonus will be something that will give us mana back (like it was Judgement of the Wise before - a percent of the damage done by the Judgment). Then PVP retrib pala will be fine too.
    Well, the talent isn't very bad for PvE, I follow you there, but there is also PvP (as you said) and also Solo PvE which wont benefit that much from the talent. Gief the old talent back plixx, or maybe move it further down in the tree.

  14. #114

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    JoW already gives us the 300-400 mana when we hit, as well as the entire raid. I not really complaining about the change, but it doesnt really make sense that using JoW will use JotW to regen mana two ways with the same spell. yes it is kind of nice that you can use JoL and also get mana regen, but most of the time a ret pally is gonna be using JoW.

    also, to luxian, the mana returned from JoW may or may not be accurate if you take into consideration the 4 sec hidden cd, but that number should be close.

  15. #115

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    Quote Originally Posted by luxian
    For PVE, in a normal raid combat situation:

    Without Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath and Hammer of Wrath, in 60 sec you will make a maximum of :

    10 x Crusader Strike (10 x 219 mana = 2190 mana)
    6 x Divine Storm (6 x 878 mana = 5268 mana)
    8 x Judgements = (8 x 351 mana = 2808 mana)
    1 Seal = 615 mana

    So we will use a total of 10800 mana. ( of course this will be a little lower as every 4 Crusader Strike we will have Judgement and CS on the same CD and every 5 CS we will CS and Divine Storm on the same CD, and every 5 Judgments we will have Judgment and Divine Storm on the same CD)

    In 60 sec we will regenerate mana as follow:

    109 mp5 from BoW = 1308
    175 mp5 from Judgement of the Wise (considering a 7000 maximum mana ) = 2100

    So a total of 3408 mana.

    BUT people are forgetting that a retrib pala or another pala will use Judgement of Wisdom that restores 350-400 mana (at least for me at level 73) and has a 50% (as far as I konw and tested on beta) chance to proc with every melee swing (including Crusader Stike and Divine Storm that now can proc). So in a minute there are about 20 white swings (with a 3.0 two-hander - and yes we will have only 3.0 considering the haste from raid buffs - see DK and shamans buffs + gear and swift retribution aura) + 10 CS and 6 Divine Storm. That is 36 melee attacks. This means that with a 50% chance to proc, Judgement of Wisdom will give 16 x 375 mana = 6000 mana.

    So we will have 3408 + 6000 = 9408 mana. That's much better. Considering you can use mana potion (once per fight) + Divine Plea once every 5 min (While channeling this spell, you gain 50% of your total mana over 6 sec.) + a possible Mana Spring Totem (if it stacks) + Mana tide totem, we can say, for PVE, retrib pala will have enough mana and flexibility to use all damaging spells, including Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath. Also do not forget we can use Seal of Wisdom (about 350-400 mana), that has a 50% proc (so in 30 sec combined with Judgement of Wisdom we can have all mana back) + in AOE situation when you use Divine storm, combined with Seal of Wisdom you can have 2-3 procs (so you gain 700-1100 mana back only from the seal). In conclusion for PVE I dont think mana will be a problem. Every mana dpser loose mana in a fight and at one point has to decide and choose the best spells and abilities it will use. So does paladins. Get over it.

    But in PVP retrib pala will have big problems with mana. I just hope the 4 set arena gear bonus will be something that will give us mana back (like it was Judgement of the Wise before - a percent of the damage done by the Judgment). Then PVP retrib pala will be fine too.
    posted it in general, posting it here... this calculation seems wrong, because it does not count the mana loss on a 7000 mana pool. You use up all your 7000 mana pool in 35 seconds and you gain back just 5500 mana in that way.. 5500 man is used in 30 seconds, while you gain back only 4700 mana which you use up in 25 seconds... Which means you are out of mana in less than 3 minutes.

  16. #116

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    use mana potion + divine plea and continue for 3 more min. Not enough? use seal of wisdom or skip using Divine Storm (and go back to TBC rotation) and pray the fights will not take more than 6 min.

    What I am saying is that Judgment of the Wise as it was was too OP. They should have changed the percent and make it give mana back only to the pala, or as it is now add to Judgment of the Wise that effect, or make retrib spell less expensive, or give us more mana regen or int that scales with AP.

  17. #117

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    Quote Originally Posted by yeknom366
    JoW already gives us the 300-400 mana when we hit, as well as the entire raid. I not really complaining about the change, but it doesnt really make sense that using JoW will use JotW to regen mana two ways with the same spell. yes it is kind of nice that you can use JoL and also get mana regen, but most of the time a ret pally is gonna be using JoW.

    also, to luxian, the mana returned from JoW may or may not be accurate if you take into consideration the 4 sec hidden cd, but that number should be close.
    Wrong. Judgement of Wisdom and Seal of Wisdom both got hit by the nerfbat in the newest patch. They return a flat % of total mana when they proc now. JoW's return is, counting in the 4 second cooldown, about the same as the one offered by Replenishment.

    In short, we're fucked.

  18. #118

    Re: Judgement of the Wise changed to a "buff"

    Quote Originally Posted by luxian
    use mana potion + divine plea and continue for 3 more min. Not enough? use seal of wisdom or skip using Divine Storm (and go back to TBC rotation) and pray the fights will not take more than 6 min.

    What I am saying is that Judgment of the Wise as it was was too OP. They should have changed the percent and make it give mana back only to the pala, or as it is now add to Judgment of the Wise that effect, or make retrib spell less expensive, or give us more mana regen or int that scales with AP.
    Divine Plea stops me from doing dps for 6 seconds, which is according to your own numbers about 12k damage. And even with mana potion I cant get back to full mana to continue another 140 seconds, more like 120 seconds. So if I use that, I am up for fighting 260 seconds. Fastest Illidan kill is 387... Now I feel kinda short...

    Lets cut down DS, kick in BoW and let's get replaced by hunter with nearly the same utility and way better dps. No, thanks

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