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  1. #41

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    SP gives mana and healing.
    Hunters give mana, rage, energy, runic power.
    Paladins give mana and/or healing?

    Author of: Goggle Cat Comics.

  2. #42

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Actually, SPriests also have their Damage Nerfed. With the changes to Misery (changing it from +5% damage, to +3% hit), and introduction of Twin Disciplines (+5% spell damage) you'll see a net DECREASE in damage done.

    Assuming no talents, to keep the math easier:
    Take Mind Flay (57% coefficient). So lets say you have 1300 spell damage, that is 741 with the coefficient, added to the base 528 damage totaling 1269 damage.

    Assuming Twin Disciplines ONLY and no other talents:
    Take Mind Flay (57% coefficient). So lets say you have 1300 spell damage, which then equates to 1365, that is 778 with the coefficient, added to the base 528 damage totaling 1306 damage.

    Assuming (old) Misery ONLY and no other talents:
    Take Mind Flay (57% coefficient). So lets say you have 1300 spell damage, that is 778 with the coefficient, added to the base 528 damage totaling 1269 damage, now add in +5% misery = 1333 damage done.

    So not only have we lost 3% of our mana restore (2% down from 5% VT) we've also lost dps.

  3. #43

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    I have a shadow priest, an affliction lock, and a feral druid...I am pretty much the epitome of "screwed" in WoTLK. Am I worried? No. Would I like more damage or better utility to the first 2 classes I mentioned? Heck Yea!! But if you are a competent raider, know how to play your class well, and in our a guild that appreciates you, you'll be okay. If not find a group of 9 friends (or however few friends you got) and group with other sets of friends and 10 man stuff.

  4. #44

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Panoramixe
    Never thought I'd say this, but by what I see on forums and read in blue posts people are overestimating moonkin.
    Yes they get a lot of raid buffs, but none of them are unique. But having a lot of raid buffs, means Blizzard will lower our dps accordingly. So while our buffs can be brought by others, we will still suffer for having them.

    It's my fear we'll just be close to worthless for 25-mans, because we'll have lower dps than the specs that bring the same utility.
    Blizzard has said spriests will get better dps and you still have the mana regen abilities, blizzard has said nothing about what they want to do with moonkin.
    overestimating moonkin? i dunno, imo bringing 13% dmg for casters, 3% hit, 3% haste and 5% spellcrit, with also -2% hit for monster is quite alot and will fill like 1/4 out of all caster buffs/debuffs
    consider what other hybrids provide -
    SP - 3% hit, mana replenishment, aggroheavy raidheal, thats it,
    eleshaman flat dmg bonus, 5% crit to casters, 3% crit to all, thats it,
    i can hardly feel fo rmoonkins right now, even if u had lower dps, u would be taken over just for the sake of buffs, EaM actually ease up on locks, so they can spam dmg curses for example, virtually raising your dmg output by that dmg curse

  5. #45

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    To all who say:

    - S. Priest damage is nerfed!
    - Other classes have our utility so now we are useless!
    - Oh, but they removed Imp. S.Bolt and nerfed this and that talent etc.

    You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Not even Blizzard knows right now how much DPS a S. Priest will put out in a raid enviroment in epic raid gear at level 80 in this and that encounter, so what makes you all think that you have all the knowledge and experience to be able deduct and confirm the S. Priest place on the DPS meter and hardcore raid leaders will bring S. Priests to raids or not? The very fact that you are speaking of this as facts just shows how ignorant you are and oblivous you are.

    Not even Blizzard has any considerable amount of experience of DPS testing yet and they can't change anything until they know what they need to change!

    So save your whining until we actually start raiding on the live realms. Blizzard are ten times better of balancing the game then you are. You are just ten times better at being fools.

  6. #46

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Merin
    "Fucking retarded looking chicken freak" doesn't roll off the tongue so well.
    Lazer Turkey.

  7. #47

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    Problem is I don't like to let my raid down, despite being one of the best at learning tactics and carrying them out, (yes arrogant but it's not really arrogant if it's true) I would feel like I'm handicapping my raid if they brought me because I provide less dps than another class which brings the same buffs. They might put up with me but I would know that someone else at the same gear level could do it better.
    It's not always about damage and they haven't even tweaked all the damage for the classes yet. I think they are trying to make all classes do comparable damage (since they are spreading utility around) that way you can raid with people you like and not have to bring some guy you absolutely hate but does 5K DPS.

  8. #48

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    could it be that Dismas actually understands this!

    Blizz couldnt balance our dps because of our crazy utility,

    you HAD to bring a SP and a ... and a...

    now they have made it so you can bring a SP and a.. and a...

    and they WILL balance it so they all do about the same damage, now that the raid stacking issue is set they can start the nitty gritty balancing.

    Wait and see,

  9. #49

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by b1t
    To all who say:

    - S. Priest damage is nerfed!
    - Other classes have our utility so now we are useless!
    - Oh, but they removed Imp. S.Bolt and nerfed this and that talent etc.

    You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Not even Blizzard knows right now how much DPS a S. Priest will put out in a raid enviroment in epic raid gear at level 80 in this and that encounter, so what makes you all think that you have all the knowledge and experience to be able deduct and confirm the S. Priest place on the DPS meter and hardcore raid leaders will bring S. Priests to raids or not? The very fact that you are speaking of this as facts just shows how ignorant you are and oblivous you are.

    Not even Blizzard has any considerable amount of experience of DPS testing yet and they can't change anything until they know what they need to change!

    So save your whining until we actually start raiding on the live realms. Blizzard are ten times better of balancing the game then you are. You are just ten times better at being fools.
    This made me lol, hard. There has been no major changes to shoot cycles or spell scalings, the only thing that's changed is the new talents we got, which means fuck all for our performance in raids. It's simple to calculate shadowpriest by simply looking at the TBC priest. Our time of glory was early in tbc due to high base damage and a set with perfect itemization for us at that time (frozen lolweave). But as other classes got more stats on their gear we were still stuck with the same dps no matter what gear upgrades we got thanks to our spell coefficients and only relying on 1 stat.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaritnR
    Blizz couldnt balance our dps because of our crazy utility,
    Wrong.

  10. #50

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    did any of you actually read the blue post? They aren't done yet! I will quote it for you!

    IMPORTANT! Before we are done, we will thoroughly test the performance of every class. It should not be assumed that one class' current performance relative to others in beta is final.

  11. #51

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by cast
    This made me lol, hard. There has been no major changes to shoot cycles or spell scalings, the only thing that's changed is the new talents we got, which means fuck all for our performance in raids. It's simple to calculate shadowpriest by simply looking at the TBC priest. Our time of glory was early in tbc due to high base damage and a set with perfect itemization for us at that time (frozen lolweave). But as other classes got more stats on their gear we were still stuck with the same dps no matter what gear upgrades we got thanks to our spell coefficients and only relying on 1 stat.
    Wrong.
    If were "simple" to calcutate Blizzard would be done with Wotlk by now, and they aren't. You don't have A CLUE about itemization of raid tier 1 and upwards in wotlk. And yes, you can apply the new talents to level 70, but you don't know shit about raiding at level 80, about the raids, about what Blizzard will change, in terms of talents, dmg on spells etc. Unless you can see into the future you're full of guesses and prejudice and such methods are not meant to balance WoW.

  12. #52

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by b1t
    If were "simple" to calcutate Blizzard would be done with Wotlk by now, and they aren't. You don't have A CLUE about itemization of raid tier 1 and upwards in wotlk. And yes, you can apply the new talents to level 70, but you don't know shit about raiding at level 80, about the raids, about what Blizzard will change, in terms of talents, dmg on spells etc. Unless you can see into the future you're full of guesses and prejudice and such methods are not meant to balance WoW.
    Hence why it's in beta, I'm talking about what it's gonna be IF they don't do any major changes to the class as it is now. I never talked about itemization in wotlk, but most people can assume what it will consist of, just not how much. There are plenty of theorycrafts out there if you start looking. All I'm saying is that they need to do a major fix to the class to get it back on track with the other classes. Guess what, everybody here are full of guesses.

  13. #53

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    QFT

  14. #54

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by derevka
    Actually, SPriests also have their Damage Nerfed.

    So not only have we lost 3% of our mana restore (2% down from 5% VT) we've also lost dps.
    The shadowpriest

  15. #55

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    About time they did something like this.

    I would rather see what the DPS of every class is like once it is released before crying about a dmg nerf now.

    I am in a new raiding guild with just friends, and it sucks every week we have to look for a pug of a certian class because one of us can't a buff to the raid that someone really needs.

    Its finally turning into a game that you can play with your friends, not find a random class that is a complete dick to come on a raid. Before I complain that my DPS might be nerfed, I would like to see what it will be in release.

  16. #56

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Don't forget that the replenishment buff still has to be triggered. Now I don't know about the other classes, but the thing that can still set the three of you apart is the difference in uptime of the buff. This still depends on Blizzard though, they might just change everything.

  17. #57

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    When do people realize that a shadowpriest IS NOT ABOUT THE DPS it's about returning Mana to your raid and as long as you do that job fine no one will give a shit about your DPS.

    And yes, I do play a shadowpriest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Freitag
    botting is a exploit/cheat, don't do that! or else kickboxing nagas will kill you. and your familie and if you had freinds they would die too. maybe they will kill your guildmates or F-list. dunno much about those nagafreaks.
    Hell yeah.

  18. #58

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    When do you realize that an expansion is coming out and it's going to bring some change in how things work exactly as the previous one did?

  19. #59

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevoron
    When do people realize that a shadowpriest IS NOT ABOUT THE DPS it's about returning Mana to your raid and as long as you do that job fine no one will give a shit about your DPS.

    And yes, I do play a shadowpriest.
    Then why would u take a shadowpreist when a survival hunter or a retribution paladin gives the same mana regen, does more damage and provide more utility? :>

  20. #60

    Re: New raid stacking and shadowpriest as a part of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by cast
    Then why would u take a shadowpreist when a survival hunter or a retribution paladin gives the same mana regen, does more damage and provide more utility? :>
    Hi

    Hunter Survival is really bad DPS, the Spriest to do more DPS that Hunter SUrvival.

    Retradin does a lot of DPS, the Spriest, i think , he can not to do more DPS that Retradin, but i dont play the WOTLK.


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