Thread: Rampage!?!

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  1. #1

    Rampage!?!

    As most fury warriors know, AP is very important for us in raids, to be able to compete for raid spots. Rampage was very important for a fury warr.. And now it is changed..

    Rampage: Increases melee and ranged critical strike chance by 5% for the raid.

    Sure it's good as hell, but warriors will have a hard time get enough AP without it.. :/
    Maybe we will have it easier to get raid spots just because of the rampage raid/group buff, i don't know...

  2. #2

    Re: Rampage!?!

    It is actually terrible, since it is worse than the druid's LotP, and doesn't stack. Yay for nerfs!
    This user has been banned.

  3. #3

    Re: Rampage!?!

    It's better if you don't have a feral \o/

  4. #4

    Re: Rampage!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nighul
    As most fury warriors know, AP is very important for us in raids, to be able to compete for raid spots. Rampage was very important for a fury warr.. And now it is changed..

    Rampage: Increases melee and ranged critical strike chance by 5% for the raid.

    Sure it's good as hell, but warriors will have a hard time get enough AP without it.. :/
    Maybe we will have it easier to get raid spots just because of the rampage raid/group buff, i don't know...
    1. Offense skilled Warriors will EVER have at least one raid spot, because of Commanding Presence.
    And Arms is pretty much out of question for raids because of the massive Blood Frenzy Nerf and the heavily increased fury dps due to TG and otehr talents.
    2. Many Boss encounters still dont favor feral druids as tanks, especially the ones with heavy magical dmg because feral druid can't reduce magical dmgas good as Prot Warrios or, in the expansion, DKs.
    and further still, not every raid does even have a feral druid in his rows.
    3. LotP is ONLY better if you put 2 or 3 Talent Points (impr.Leader of the Pack) in, which is in my eyes fair compared to the 1 Point we need for rampage,

  5. #5

    Re: Rampage!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Varithorn1
    It is actually terrible, since it is worse than the druid's LotP, and doesn't stack. Yay for nerfs!
    "Melee Critical Strike Chance Buff: Leader of the Pack, Rampage"

  6. #6

    Re: Rampage!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blafasel
    1. Offense skilled Warriors will EVER have at least one raid spot, because of Commanding Presence.
    And Arms is pretty much out of question for raids because of the massive Blood Frenzy Nerf and the heavily increased fury dps due to TG and otehr talents.
    2. Many Boss encounters still dont favor feral druids as tanks, especially the ones with heavy magical dmg because feral druid can't reduce magical dmgas good as Prot Warrios or, in the expansion, DKs.
    and further still, not every raid does even have a feral druid in his rows.
    3. LotP is ONLY better if you put 2 or 3 Talent Points (impr.Leader of the Pack) in, which is in my eyes fair compared to the 1 Point we need for rampage,
    3. How is it only better with the extra points in it??

  7. #7

    Re: Rampage!?!

    BoM also overlaps BS... So better start gearing for tanking or arenas boys!

  8. #8

    Re: Rampage!?!

    @Op, i dunno how your having a hard time getting AP, my prot warrior, in dps gear has (with BS) over 2k AP, i easily hit 2400 when i was fury, losing 250 or so AP is worth the 5% crit, even if it wasnt to the whole raid. Since our crits now trigger other things, (bloodthirsts and slams), when the xpac comes, you'll forget all about the crappy ole 20 rage sink every 30 sec for 250 ap.

  9. #9
    The Patient
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    Re: Rampage!?!

    i am liking this change... less buffs stacking means less hardcore raiding.

  10. #10
    Calminaion
    Guest

    Re: Rampage!?!

    Using this simple SEP (Strength Equivalence Points) comparison (Hey, rogues get AEP, we should get something funky and cool too ;->), We can attempt to see which is better.

    1 STR ~= 2.2 AP ~= 1.05 Crit ~= 1.3 Haste ~= 1.45 AGI ~= 1.66 Hit ~= 6.5 Armor Penetration

    Let's extrapolate from that the relevant numbers .... 2.2AP ~= 1.05 crit.

    Now it takes 23 crit rating for 1%, therefore 5% crit = 115 crit rating.

    So, 115 crit rating = (2.2 AP * (115/1.05)) = 240 AP.

    ie. 5% crit = 240 AP.

    Now, consider that you get that 5% crit immediately on crit, whereas the 250 AP from rampage as it is now, only gets there when it gets stacked 5 times, which takes 5 crits, I'd actually say this is a buff, not a nerf. Also consider that this just happens, you don't have to activate it and spend rage, and the fact that there are other things that trigger when you crit (which you now have an increased chance to do) - overall ... good change.

  11. #11

    Re: Rampage!?!

    Sure, Calminaion, until you factor in what rampage was originally planned to be at level 80.

    Hint: It wasn't 250 AP at 5 stacks.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
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    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  12. #12

    Re: Rampage!?!

    What about the fact that it helps keeping up flurry

  13. #13

    Re: Rampage!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighterx
    3. How is it only better with the extra points in it??

    Leader of the Pack and rampage are 5% flat buffs. You can assume that a warrior will crit in the first 5 seconds, or you need work. Also, LotP is an aura, so it may be out of range for some people. For all we know, Rampage's proc will not. The trump is that Ilotp restores health, while Rampage does not.

  14. #14
    Calminaion
    Guest

    Re: Rampage!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigercat
    Sure, Calminaion, until you factor in what rampage was originally planned to be at level 80.

    Hint: It wasn't 250 AP at 5 stacks.
    The beauty of equivalence points tables, is that they scale. 1.05 crit rating equating to 1 str is what the comparison is at 70. At 80 the scales will re-align to the point where you'll see that even about 400 AP (assuming this would have been rampage at 80) is pretty much the same at 5% crit.

    Consider for a minute that 250 ap (current Ramp) is about 13% of what you'd have as a raiding fury warrior unbuffed (Assuming 1900). It's quite conceivable that you could have around 3000 ap unbuffed at level 80. Which makes the comparison between 400 ap or 5% crit pretty close.

    But still, a straight equivalence comparison isn't really a good indicator, considering the added advantages extra crit gives you, purely on what's available in the fury tree.

  15. #15

    Re: Rampage!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calminaion
    The beauty of equivalence points tables, is that they scale. 1.05 crit rating equating to 1 str is what the comparison is at 70. At 80 the scales will re-align to the point where you'll see that even about 400 AP (assuming this would have been rampage at 80) is pretty much the same at 5% crit.

    Consider for a minute that 250 ap (current Ramp) is about 13% of what you'd have as a raiding fury warrior unbuffed (Assuming 1900). It's quite conceivable that you could have around 3000 ap unbuffed at level 80. Which makes the comparison between 400 ap or 5% crit pretty close.

    But still, a straight equivalence comparison isn't really a good indicator, considering the added advantages extra crit gives you, purely on what's available in the fury tree.
    To expand on this, which is the best explanation...

    5% crit over the AP is meant to give better synergy for the Fury tree. Flurry depends on crits, Bloodbath depends on crits. Granted, it's not an optimal buff for raid situations with a bear present, but it's imo better for solo and 5-mans. WW and Enraged Assault with Titan's Grip and that much crit sounds awfully tasty to me. The burst could get pretty insane.

  16. #16
    Calminaion
    Guest

    Re: Rampage!?!

    OMG ... where'd this come from ... that is insane ...

    Is this some suggestion by the posters on the board, or are they going to change it ??

    *edit* ... ok ... your post has a different tone now after the edit.

  17. #17

    Re: Rampage!?!

    I like the fact that it's now a passive buff, and extra crit is always nice, but like many people I feel it's underpowered compared to Leader of the Pack.

    Leader of the pack is always active as long as the druid is in a feral form, while we have to crit to activate the rampage buff. I know that for any half decently geared fury warrior, it'll should always be up, but it's still not 100% of the time. LotP is lower in the feral tree than Rampage is in fury, yet it's superior. LotP has a much greater range than rampage (45 yards compared to 20). LotP can be improved with 2 points to heal party/raid members.

    I know fury has had some nice buffs recently, but this was meant to help make us more viable for raiding, but clearly fails if there is a feral druid present. While I know stacking the buffs would be too much to ask, maybe if there was an extra elelment to our buff, 5% extra hit for example, that would still be active even if a feral druid was present, I think that would help us out quite a bit.

  18. #18

    Re: Rampage!?!

    not all classes talents are meant to be equal, some are better than others. Rogues vitality(4% stam for 2 pts) is better than warriors, their dual wield spec is too (50%), Shaman's Flurry(30%) is better than warriors, paladin anticipation is only slightly better (one tier lower). I'm not making the point that all classes are better than warriors, but that warriors actually get all these talents that other classes have too, we can do everything that other classes can, just not really as well perhaps. But we can do it all. A jack of all trades that can tank well, DPs well and now has something more to give a group other than 2 shouts and a meatshield.

  19. #19

    Re: Rampage!?!

    You're looking at it from the wrong side, now you can raid without NEEDING a feral druid along for the extra crits. Truth be said, I doubt feral druids will reach the sheer damage of fury warriors anytime soon.

  20. #20

    Re: Rampage!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasuhiko

    Leader of the Pack and rampage are 5% flat buffs. You can assume that a warrior will crit in the first 5 seconds, or you need work. Also, LotP is an aura, so it may be out of range for some people. For all we know, Rampage's proc will not. The trump is that Ilotp restores health, while Rampage does not.
    Still i say its better with 1 talent point because its possible the warrior could get no crits for 5 seconds or w/e it is (though probably rare). I might have to actually get the healing part now that it affects raid

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