Greatest Change in Feral History is Confirmed

[Seraphk]

As many of you know, in WoTLK beta Feral Cats are regenerating Energy no matter what form they are in. Jimmythenumbers said that this was "unintentional" due to the removal of Powershifting. They made it where you regenerated energy in forms, but then made Furor into a 40 energy cap for it with no energy restoration. This killed powershifting and made energy regen mechanics the same they were before.

However, Jimmythenumbers made another post:

I just changed Furor to read as follows with 5 talent points:

Gives you 100% chance to gain 10 Rage when you shapeshift into Bear and Dire Bear Form, and you keep up to 100 of your Energy when you shapeshift into Cat Form, and increases your total Intellect while in Moonkin form by 10%.

So, fully-talented, you will no longer lose any energy from shapeshifting out and back into Cat Form.

What does this mean for Ferals?

Well, it's the greatest buff to shifting synergy since the beginning of Ferals. This will effectively allow us to Off-Tank and come out at 100 energy to deal damage, and it will allow us to come out and use our Battle Rez/Tranquility/Innervate and regenerate or start at 100 energy when we shift back in.

This means so much to Feral Druids and is quite possibly the greatest thing they've done for the Feral spec in a very long time.

However, even though this is great news -- We still cannot ignore the fact that our DPS scalability is still very poor & that we no longer have Int on our gear to shift + access utility heals/CC. Hopefully these things will be addressed later, but for now, let us enjoy this most awesome Feral love.

[Deleted]

It simply means that the old furor is removed and the cat energy regeneration will continue normally out of cat form (even in bear or moonkin form) so if you are at 0 energy and wait 6 seconds then you can shift back and you will have 60 energy

[Emmerald]

It simply means that the old furor is removed and the cat energy regeneration will continue normally out of cat form (even in bear or moonkin form) so if you are at 0 energy and wait 6 seconds then you can shift back and you will have 60 energy

The way you say this implies you don't think this all is a significant change? Yes, it "simply" means that, but the overall effects are quite significant.

In addition to what Seraphk said, this change will help loads in questing or whatever. In effect, you are battle-ready at all times. Ride to a target, unmount by shifting into cat, unload your DPS immediately. Or after killing the previous mob, shift out, Moonfire the next one, shift back in, continue with loads of energy.

IMHO, the only threat to this change really is how it works in PvP. The way I can see us play with this change is to all-out-DPS our energy pool, maybe with Tiger's Fury to boot, then go to Bear form for 10s and outlast the "low-DPS" phase, then to Cat again for another burst. This strategy will likely be really nasty against most opponents, especially melee, since its looking like we're gonna be dealing respectable DPS also in Bear form. If that is too good, then Blizz will have to tune things again and I don't know in which direction (i.e. where they will nerf us).

[StarControl]

Really not that big of a thing really - not at all as much as the OP makes it up to be.

Is this a nice change - sure! Is this something I've wanted all my WoW life - not even in a long shot, not even in my top 20 list.

All this does is in the case of OT-ing and shifting into cat DPS it gives you a benefit of 6 seconds ( 100 energy - 40 you already gain by furor in live = 60 ). Nothing too fancy. In pvp it also may help dish out a bit more damage, but really it's sort of a "meh" change and nothing to get so excited over.

[Miragy]

The way I read it you "keep" energy. IE you get to keep what you had when you shapeshifted out of cat form. Just the way I read it tho.

[Deleted]

Really not that big of a thing really - not at all as much as the OP makes it up to be.

Is this a nice change - sure! Is this something I've wanted all my WoW life - not even in a long shot, not even in my top 20 list.

All this does is in the case of OT-ing and shifting into cat DPS it gives you a benefit of 6 seconds ( 100 energy - 40 you already gain by furor in live = 60 ). Nothing too fancy. In pvp it also may help dish out a bit more damage, but really it's sort of a "meh" change and nothing to get so excited over.

Yes lets keep it this way (if you know what i mean XD )

[Seraphk]

Just to sum things up so people are on the same page. I've been playing a Feral Druid since release &, even though I love this class, it has always been more of a flawed design to me.

You see -- Shifting is the core mechanic through which a Feral Druid synergizes its utility and offensive power. We are required to fully utilize Bear and Cat forms for their utility/offensive power while using humanoid form to perform heals/CC. However, shifting not only costs a considerable 35% of your base mana, but it also removes all Rage from Bear Form when you shift, all Energy from Cat Form when you shift. These are primary sources of power for your accessibility of utility/offensive capabilities in Bear/Cat form.

While Rage is easily generated and unlimited most of the time, Energy is a fixed regeneration value. For this reason, anytime you shift out of Cat Form and back into Cat Form, you're wasting tons and tons of power. There's absolutely no synergy with shifting. And without synergy, accessing our utility becomes nothing more than an inefficient waste of time.

With this change, Ferals will finally be able to do what they were promised they'd be able to do. Role-switch by shifting -- With no inefficiency, no waste in time, and no excess costs for shifting.

And there's no way they can consider us finally accessing our utility in a more efficient manner "too good". This is the reason Feral Druids have not been competitive in arenas. With this change, I guarantee you that they'll finally have a reason to go into an arena match as Feral.

A final note, the PvP changes are greater than that of PvE of course, so for the person whom I just read commenting about it. I apologize if you haven't PvP'd on your Feral Druid a lot, I personally don't blame you. But as someone that has two Level 70 Ally Druids and one Level 70 Horde Druid -- All of which are Feral. I've done plenty of PvP on my Feral Druids and it's very easy to recognize the design flaw and lack of synergy present in shifting which directly results in our poor performance in any PvP situation. However, for the sake of not causing panic, I will *wink* agree *wink* with "Really not that big of a thing really".

[Sonrisa]

but now you can't powershift :O

[Seraphk]

but now you can't powershift :O

This is true.

The scalability and DPS lost from the removal of powershifting will be regrettably missed, but at least this makes Furor a more than viable talent again. Instead of losing two things, we only lost one. Hopefully they will find a way to increase our DPS scalability in such a way that powershifting will not be missed in PvE.

However, PvP-wise, powershifting allowed you to shift back into Cat Form and perform another Mangle / Finisher. Now, it will take a while to do that, but at least you have a chance to shift in with up to 100 energy which is a finisher + entire new cycle of DPS. I consider this a greater gain than that from powershifing as... Mana was intensive enough as it was. Powershifting in PvP may have been the only way to down a particular person, especially a healer, but we have more control now and less mana to use. Being able to go from Humanoid/Bear into Cat with 100 energy far surpasses that of forcing a powershift for 40 energy costing you so much mana.

[Lysiander]

This is a welcome change, especially when we factor in the general mana regen change, which will clear out some dead wait times. However, as other's have said, it isn't high on my list. It will help, most definately, but I'd rather see actual scaling, since while now energy may not be as big an issue as it used to be, mana now becomes the prime issue.
Considering that we will be wearing rogue gear, and even druid specific gear doesn't seem to have much or any intelect, I doubt we will be shifting anywhere near as much as we are now. So far, this is a shiny new toy which primises loads of fun, but got locked away by our parents because it is too fragile and will only be played with after permission has been obtained.

As for powershifting, I don't mourn it's loss. It always was a somewhat akward method borderlining an exploit and heavily connection dependant. Most of the time, it netted me somewhere between 10 and 15 energy maybe, which really isn't that much. I'd rather save my mana for a battleress or an occasional heal.

[Nightcrowler]

with the new furor (giving 100 energy basically after 10 seconds of regeneration):

Actually the best cycle of dps for cat druid is 2-3 SR / 5 RIP.

If we consider a 3 SR / 5 RIP cycle, with hit capped, 8500 ap, 40% crit and all the cat dps talent active we will have an average cycle time of 22.5 seconds with an average savage roar uptime of 95% (21.5 seconds).

The original cycle is:

shred till 3 cp, wait till about 80-85 energy, SR, mangle, shred till 5 cp, RIP.

If we want to include Bear into rotation the best place i can see without increasing cycle time is into the waiting time, the waiting time is usually about 7-8 seconds. Consider that you waste 2 powershifting instead of 1 (cat-bear, bear-cat) it will more mana intensive than the usual powershift but also you'll do it about every 22 seconds instead of 7-8 seconds like the old powershifting making the mana expendure about the same.

Also you will use mangle-bear so you will not use mangle cat in your rotation extending the waiting time to include 1 more shred, basically you'll prolly want to wait till 100 energy now. Savage roar will probably be up till the last 2 seconds of bear form, and enrage will be usable each 3 cycles.

So we will have about 8 seconds of bear form. The best way will probably be:

energy 0-10, time 0: cat -> bear
energy 15-25, time 1.5: mangle bear
energy 30-40, time 3: lacerate/swipe
time 4: maul?
energy 45-55, time 4.5: lacerate/swipe
energy 60-70 time 6: mangle bear
time 6.5: maul?
energy 75-85, time 7.5: powershift bear > cat
energy 85-95, time 8.5: you are now in cat form and gcd is finished, shred...

So we will gain a total of (if we will have enough rage...) 2x mangle, 2x maul, 2x swipe + 3 autoattack.

We will also consider that you will have no less than 1000 ap in bear form than in cat form, all other stats staying the same (-4% crit). You will also have (probably) at least a +20% on swipe, +20% on mangle +20% on maul, another +10% on maul due to R&T, and +4% to all damage due to Master ShapeShifter.
Also savage roar will be up for the biggest part of the rotation.

[Seraphk]

Wow Nightcrowler, that's genius.

I didn't even think about this...

You're saying we can start in Bear Form and Mangle for the debuff with potentially more damage than that of Cat Form. Then powershift over to Cat Form with 100 energy and start shreding and powershift over to Bear in order to perform a Mangle + additional damage everytime?

Wow, I don't think I would have even thought of that, but it is definitely a possibility.

This would be awesome!

EDIT:

Wait though, Bear Mangle would save you 40 energy in your DPS rotation which would be the exact same amount of energy Powershifting granted only you aren't actually using the energy. Thus, they've effectively traded one form of Powershifting for another form of Powershifting that is more effective -- Blizzard is silly.

I say that because this gives a high likely-hood of them changing it. However, any Druids in Beta, I beg of you. Please post that this can easily be fixed by making Mangle (Bear) stack with Mangle (Cat) while Bear only affects your Mauls and Cat only affects your Shreds. This would be much better than them nerfing this new synergy they've provided us and gimping Feral Druids more.

[Feritas]

I say that because this gives a high likely-hood of them changing it. However, any Druids in Beta, I beg of you. Please post that this can easily be fixed by making Mangle (Bear) stack with Mangle (Cat) while Bear only affects your Mauls and Cat only affects your Shreds. This would be much better than them nerfing this new synergy they've provided us and gimping Feral Druids more.

??? ??? i gotta ask you, almost no buffs stacks anymore and you suggest that we get 2 of them same buffs that will stack ?

[Seraphk]

??? ??? i gotta ask you, almost no buffs stacks anymore and you suggest that we get 2 of them same buffs that will stack ?

The buffs stack to provide a 30% increase to Maul damage and a 30% increase to Shred damage separately, not increase Bleed damage by multiplicative amounts.

Thus, it would essentially be a completely different debuff. However, this was just a suggestion so that people could not go into Bear and use the Mangle the shift over into Cat and perform their DPS with the debuff. Although, I believe it should be this way, it's basically just one form of powershifting for another form of powershifting -- Only with more Feral synergy behind it.

No matter what happens, this Feral Energy Regen mechanic must be preserved for the sake of synergy in PvP. With this change, Feral Druids will do much better in arenas having shifting work for them rather than against them -- The way it was always supposed to be.

We are required to access all the utility we have to be successful in PvP and right now it comes with a high mana cost along with additional Rage/Energy costs which should not be there. While rage is much more unlimited and easily rebuilt (much like a Warrior that changes stances to access his utility but builds the Rage back up instantly), Energy is a fixed regen rate. Druids having to shift into Cat form and have 4+ seconds before they can perform adequate offensive DPS is simply ridiculous. This change to energy will allow us to access all of our utility with no cost in energy.

[Shuror]

This was the case earlier when Mangle Maul bonus was implemented. Removed due to debuff clutter.

[melko]

moonkin form was better

[huangzhong9]

r u serious with the necro?

[tyden49]

question?
why has this thread been bumped up to the top when it was over a year ago lol