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  1. #41

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    Guys, enhance your calm.

    All second passes on classes so far have been awesome (Hunter, Warrior and now the Rogue pass), so let's have a bit more patience until the next Paladin pass and draw our conclusions then.

    I agree but unless we make our voices heard about our dislike with this move, we really won't get a second chance. That being said, its a bit to soon to curse at Bliz.

    But if something should be done by next beta patch.
    We are warriors, born from the light
    An army for freedom, defenders of life
    Warriors, euphoria will rise
    Returning from darkness we bury all lies

  2. #42

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Has anyone actually tested this on a beta server or are they still down? How about we wait until a ret pally grinding goes oom in 5 seconds, then complain.

  3. #43

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Besides warlocks of course...what class doesn't go oom while constantly attacking things and not stopping to drink? ...One of the biggest changes in WOTLK is raid synergy, ret paladins will get mana back from so many different things. QQing about going oom while grinding is like QQing about going oom while AOEing as a mage. Nothing is easy solo...unless you're a warlock or a death knight.

  4. #44

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Little disapointed, I admit, but not heartbroken over it. To be honest, in most builds prior to this I didn't even SPEC my paladin to get Judgement of the Wise, prefering to put a few points in prot for improved dodge, armor, and strength. ... And of course, everyone's favorite raid buff, kings.

    I lose the boost to my mana regen? Okay. I still have other ways to get mana. I got blessing of wisdom, the new http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=53408 Judgement of Wisdom, and the fact that Seals now last two minutes means I don't NEED as much mana as before. Sheath of Light increasing my spell damage by my attack power means I don't have to worry so much about getting spell damage gear either, so I can focus more on grabbing gear that will let me just beat a mob to death. Frankly, for the most part I'm HAPPY with how ret is right now. Will Judgement of the Wise change? Most likely we'll see a boost coming to the raid wide mana regen it gives off. Will it beat a Shadow Priest? Probably not. But it will get a bit closer.

  5. #45

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Raid-Synergy is the big problem i see at this time...
    You only regen Mana from one source. Hunters Hunting-Party, Priests Vapiric Touch and Paladins Judgement of the Wise all have the same effect and only the newest will regen mana on you. Though it will regen constantly. This is more like a permanent increase in overall manaregen in raids than anything else :ß

    They've changed alot with the Raid-Synergy stuff and as for hunters - the one class i can really speak for - we're frustrated, since the only thing needed at all is ONE BM-Hunter. MM never had any Raid-Viability (still doesn't) - SV looses his greatest Support - only BM has his 3% DMG-Buff which is sort of unique

  6. #46

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by Chumpp
    Besides warlocks of course...what class doesn't go oom while constantly attacking things and not stopping to drink? ...One of the biggest changes in WOTLK is raid synergy, ret paladins will get mana back from so many different things. QQing about going oom while grinding is like QQing about going oom while AOEing as a mage. Nothing is easy solo...unless you're a warlock or a death knight.
    Raid synergy is all well and good. But what happens when I'm OOM 30 seconds into an arena match?

  7. #47

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    I think Blizzard is breaking things on purpose here to test things out. Also if you think about it, Judgement of the wise in its newest form is too weak to be where it's at. I think something will be added to make it balanced.

    It can mean they increase the number 0.5% to 5%, or it synergize better with judgement of wisdom in later patches.

    I think this is a standard testing procedure. Since they buffed ret's dps so far beyond intention, they already know the max potential of pallies and they are now tweaking values by breaking things to see what the lower limit is.

    I think they might give us back the mana regen we had sometime in the future. Just sit back and relax.


    If they can buff Becon of Light to 40 yard AE healing range, they will give us the mana regen back to us sometime. They are listening to us. So, just relax.

  8. #48

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMageNeko
    Little disapointed, I admit, but not heartbroken over it. To be honest, in most builds prior to this I didn't even SPEC my paladin to get Judgement of the Wise, prefering to put a few points in prot for improved dodge, armor, and strength. ... And of course, everyone's favorite raid buff, kings.

    I lose the boost to my mana regen? Okay. I still have other ways to get mana. I got blessing of wisdom, the new http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=53408 Judgement of Wisdom, and the fact that Seals now last two minutes means I don't NEED as much mana as before. Sheath of Light increasing my spell damage by my attack power means I don't have to worry so much about getting spell damage gear either, so I can focus more on grabbing gear that will let me just beat a mob to death. Frankly, for the most part I'm HAPPY with how ret is right now. Will Judgement of the Wise change? Most likely we'll see a boost coming to the raid wide mana regen it gives off. Will it beat a Shadow Priest? Probably not. But it will get a bit closer.
    I believe SPs, survival hunters and rets now all have the same mana regen ability and they do not stack

    edit sorry bout repetition
    Statistically speaking, you are an average player. Learn to live with it.

  9. #49

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by grenalden
    Raid synergy is all well and good. But what happens when I'm OOM 30 seconds into an arena match?
    qtf

  10. #50

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by Xucuroz
    I agree but unless we make our voices heard about our dislike with this move, we really won't get a second chance. That being said, its a bit to soon to curse at Bliz.

    But if something should be done by next beta patch.
    I agree. We should make our voices heared in the hopes that Blizzard will listen and fix the issues we are currently facing, but at the moment 95% of the Paladin community is making their voices heared in the most retarded manner.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  11. #51

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiphares
    yay, well done blizzard ,,!,, -.-

    btw they nerfed imp blessing of might too, only 25% (was 50%)
    They also buffed Blessing of Might by 40% (Rank 9 is 550 AP BEFORE imp BoM, and 688 after. (550/4 = 137.5 + 550 = 688 .) That means Imp BoM is now close to 200 AP *better* than before.

    EDIT: Edited for those who don't do well with math.

  12. #52

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    think things through please... :/ as the guy above me stated they're buffing BoM as a skill pretty nicely rather than just "zomg QQ nerfing" the Talent that improves it.

    Also, with the changes happening, you'll cast a Seal, and not have to re-cast for 2 minutes, you wont use just "Judgement" you'll use 1 of 3 Judgements, 1 of which is J.o.Wisdom, so use that to compensate for mana issues. You'll get Divine Plea to help out gettin mana back if you're QQ'ing about Arena (off CD each match), 50% mana bar filled in 6 seconds.

    Yes it's not as good as the 60% mana back that JoTW Was, but some people are making it sound like the world is ending.

  13. #53

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    *world ends*

  14. #54

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    I agree. We should make our voices heared in the hopes that Blizzard will listen and fix the issues we are currently facing, but at the moment 95% of the Paladin community is making their voices heared in the most retarded manner.
    And the wrong places, if you're not in the beta, you should not be complaining, and if you are, you should be raising the valid arguments on the boards set aside for it, namely the WotL Beta Boards. Not saying you don't Rawberry, just saying that 99% of the people complaining aren't in the beta, and thus are complaining from a purely theoretical standpoint, which is logical as it may seem, useless when they have not been able to test it.

    Basically, if you're not in the beta, all you can do is make things *worse* by griping about things you cannot test. Opinions are cool, but guessorycrafting isn't

  15. #55

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiphares
    sure, but battleshout is way stronger than our might^^

    @moar: we'll have to wait, i still have some hope^^
    they changed might, same AP as battle shout now so therefore imp might > battle shout

  16. #56

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    I think I'm following Blizzard's logic with this line of reasoning:

    Ret is OP, nerf the damage.

    Ret's damage is coming more into line as we buff other classes and get numbers tweaked.

    Ret's mana system works perfectly for them, but the group buff is too powerful. Nerf JotW.

    Now Ret's mana pool is crippled, but we need to know where they are with Replenishment and JoW to be able to give them a reasonable self-regen effect without OPing them again.

    In short, I think they've swept the legs out from under us in an effort to gauge where we are. We weren't meant to work -exactly- like rogues or warriors, I dont think. They want us to be efficient and functional, but they -do- want us to eventually run out of mana just like any other mana-based class, the trick is to make our talents fulfill this role while we have 0 intellect on our gear.

  17. #57

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko
    but imp BS > or = to imp might
    imp BS = imp Might (both 687.5 AP) therefore Imp might > imp battle shout because of the longer duration

  18. #58

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    f
    Quote Originally Posted by Basutai
    'K berry, i've enhanced my calm, stroked my epeen, and put in 8 hours of work to get my focus up.

    Are you only capable of posting on the EU blizzard forums, or US as well? I dont have beta (and believe you do), but I think the best way to try and have our voices heard is to ATTEMPT to initiate a candid conversation, in detail, with blizzard staff, about their goals for ret specifically. if we can get them speaking, we can find out what their end goal is, and offer more ideas than the 20? 15? 8? people on the paladin dev team, potentially letting our voices be heard. We get as many MMO-champ posters to give logical input as possible, and get their attention.
    Being a EU Beta tester I cannot post on the US forums, this does not present a problem as I do not post on the Beta forums anyway.


    *WAIT, WHAT? YOU DO NOT POST ON THE BETA FORUMS?*


    No, I do not.

    Me and several other (about 30) Retribution Paladins on the EU Beta realm concluded that everytime we made an attempt to get constructive feedback going on the forums a group of trolls would come down and ruin the thread.

    Thus we decided to, as a group discuss our opinions on a private forum and pass the end result to Blizzard using the feedback / suggestion tool ingame.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  19. #59

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    Quote Originally Posted by grenalden
    Raid synergy is all well and good. But what happens when I'm OOM 30 seconds into an arena match?
    Who gives a shit about Arena. WoW was made a PvE game. If you want PvP, go play counterstrike.

  20. #60

    Re: Well, Blizz Destroyed Judgements of the Wise for Ret

    To Ashton,

    Epic sig. XD

    Anyway, just because it's a PvE game doesnt mean there shouldnt be PvP.

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