Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000


    I think it's pretty solid, the only thing that I'm kinda iffy on is taking Healing Focus over Aspiration.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Nogi
    Guest

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    i think that for PVE more then 23 points in discipline to get the IDS is useless.
    i don't see this specc good for pve end-game raiding other then healing MT. and that just a waste of a healer that can coverup raidhealing in one of the best way and assist on the MT healing.

    i really don't see the changes in discipline tree as making it more available to raids. you can raid in anyspecc, you always could - its really a question of how you do it: you can heal in shadowspecc, holy and disci - ofc in holy specc you heals will be bigger and more effective. so ofc you can come to a raid, even now as discipline with PI and w/e you want. as Holy you have more varity, more healing power etc in pve healing, while the discipline tree has more talents for PVP.

    although many think that full disci might be really good for pve raiding, i really don't see how a priest without the holy talents in raids, and in end-game pve it is important.
    ofc you can go to kara lvl instance and say "see i can do it as disci" ofc, you can do everything as disci, yet pve end-game raiding is easier as holy and you become more usefull as holy.

    reading the new patch, refering to other iditoic posts, seeing blizz takes care only for pvp.
    most of the new talents i've seen and from reading the patch note its all about having "Cake". seems like blizzard forgot that the game isn't only about arena, pvp and BG's, some play it for the pve progress as well as pvp.

    i hope that the same effort the put in the pvp talents they will add to the pve talents.

    about the specc: for pve its crap - all you will do is spam Gheal? paladins do that twice as better. the idea of a priest is the versitile way of healing, the discipline tree doesn't allow the priest to be that, it allows the priest to pvp.
    for pve specc i would say: either full holy with GS lal something like 14/57 (if you really want to take that innerfire take it w/e), or the disci pve: 23/48 (with CoH). i wouldn't go more then 23 points in discipline for endgaming progress.

    discipline tree was buffed really nicely for pvp, just like shadow pvp talents. blizz forgot abit that shadowpriests are more common in pve.

  3. #3

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Due to the latest Grace changes (1% dmg reduction x 3) and the PW:S Buff, the Disc Tree is back where it belongs: PvP

    Anybody saying anything else... well... I can tell you a story of a mage who went to Gruul fully Intellect specced.... (He almost managed 2/3 of the DPS our Hateful-Strike tank did!)

  4. #4

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by dionadar
    Due to the latest Grace changes (1% dmg reduction x 3) and the PW:S Buff, the Disc Tree is back where it belongs: PvP

    Anybody saying anything else... well... I can tell you a story of a mage who went to Gruul fully Intellect specced.... (He almost managed 2/3 of the DPS our Hateful-Strike tank did!)
    Discipline does not belong solely in PVP, that's retarded. You haven't seen the quotes saying that they'd like to make every spec raid viable, eh? You haven't seen the blue posts about Discipline soon to be the new highest single-healer in the game? As a currently PVP discipline priest who would love to raid this spec, I think that this mindset is harmful to game balance, and to all players out there.

    That being said, focus is placed on main-tank healing. I think that you could cut back a little bit on discipline to get very, very helpful spells like Improved Healing (And even Holy Reach), but I'll take a look at it later.

  5. #5

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    I kinda like your spec, and I see where you're going with it...

    I was thinking something more like this for raiding http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000

    It would drop Penance, but you'd get a lot more healing power out of it, allowing to be a MT/raid healer while giving utility/situational buffs (that don't stack under the new rules 8) ) for the rest of the spellcaster raid ppl - PS and PI, FTW! ;D

  6. #6

  7. #7

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    I don't know, if blizzard pulls through with the promised mechanic of allowing tank to get rage/mana through shield, plus the glyph that gives 20% of amount absorbed as health to whoever is shielded, this build could prove to be a VERY effective healing-through-mitigation spec. Plus, as a disc-priest, I plan on stacking a lot more crit then a standard holy priest(crit heal = more mana from rapture + divine aegis + inspiration).

  8. #8

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Here are some basic numbers I came up with(this is very rough, and I'm assuming that rapture gives you mana from the entire amount healed, including overheal):

    A 9k greater heal crit gives back 225 mana through rapture (9000 x .025 = 225) plus generates a 2700 damage shield through Divine Aegis, which gives back another 675 mana (2700 x .25 = 675). All told, that's 900 mana from one crit. For statistical purposes, I calculated the results with 6k crit (150 mana from heal, 450 mana from shield) and 12k crit (300 mana from heal and 900 mana from shield). So, basically, with rapture and divine aegis, every time you crit a heal as a discipline priest, you are going to get 10% of the amount healed back as mana.

    I haven't been able to find the spellpower coefficient into PW:S, but for the sake of argument, a 3.5 shield gives back 875 mana through rapture every 15 seconds, plus also factor in the additional 6% crit chance with Renewed Hope. Discipline won't be as efficient as holy in terms of total throughput, but it seems to me that it's going to function like a holy paladin: the more crit we have, the easier it is to spam.

  9. #9

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    Rapture doesn't work with aegis, if it did that would be sick and useful...
    Actually, it does... it returns mana on PW:S, Divine Aegis, FHeal, GHeal, and Penance...

  10. #10

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    nah, they nerfed Grace, but Rapture has been like this for a while... (I looked at some earlier talent builds, and it used to be a static 5%, but they changed it to go 5/10/15/20/25 per talent in Rapture.)

  11. #11

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    I personally like this spec for PvE

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000

  12. #12

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    Someone please tell me WHY you lot keep getting healing focus in...every...damn....build? It is totally useless now with the pushback changes.
    So you become pushback-immune as soon as one pally in your raid pops conc aura (I know that currently it does not read it would stack like this, but currently all talents with "reduces chance to be pushed back" are being changed to "pushback amount reduced by" which would in the end reduce the amount of pushback you receive by 100%)?

    But yeah, in the case of a disc-heavy build it has its advantages to take the crit chance instead, since it has slight synergies with the end-disc talents.

    BTW: with the grace changes there is no reason to consider speccing disc for pve....

  13. #13

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    BTW: with the grace changes there is no reason to consider speccing disc for pve....
    especially since BoSanc has the same effect AND rage/mana/runic on block/parry/dodge

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    3,376

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000

    Still not fond of Borrowed time - its a waste of talent points in its current position and how much it actually do.

    Similar with Grace - in its position its insane to expect a 2 point talent that needs to stack 3 times when other classes can get a 1 point talent that stays for the whole duration and also adds a secondary effect. Then it doesn't matter jack if they make rage go through pw:s - it will still be weak.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  15. #15

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible
    Still not fond of Borrowed time - its a waste of talent points in its current position and how much it actually do.
    Borrowed time is pretty much what makes a shield/disc priest valid. Its not for the CD improvement, its for the +40% spellpower to shield.


    I got some of this information from a number of posts(so I don't want to take full credit), but added a lot of information and calculations that I did.

    Lots of people are really upset with the priest changes for Wrath. And yeah, I am one of them! However, I think we might be missing some of the changes to Disc. It's not a lame tree so much anymore. With the removal of downranking, a priests bread and butter, Disc makes it not so much a spam-fest. You will be casting PW:S, Penance, and then some random spell between cooldowns (a flash heal, or gheal, or binding heal, or renew, or PoM)

    A lot of priests don't seem to understand the changes to discipline yet, primarily the new emphasis on Power Word: Shield. Lots are removing Borrowed Time (PW: Shield CD reduction... woopie... but a HUGE increase to the absorption it offers!) Talented you have a flat 15% increase to Shields, and then another 40% spellpower increase. At 80 the base spell does 2230 absorption, with a 30% spellpower coefficient, then add in the talents. With 2k spellpower you have a shield that absorbs nearly 4200 damage, INSTANT! For 864 mana... (talented down from 960)... then returning 216 mana back to you from Rapture, netting 648 mana. Then with a glyph, the shield then also heals the target for 20% of the shield.

    Discipline priests will be spamming shield every time its up, on the tanks of course and on ANYONE that takes damage. Blizzard has already discussed Rage generation regarding shields, so that will be addressed, I'm not worried.

    Then weakened soul, now also provides a 6% crit chance increase, which, speaking of crit, then the talent Divine Aegis creates a shield that will absorb 30% of the healed amount on crits.

    Lets look at what this does for a rank 7 greater heal that hits for approximately 5k at level 70.

    The 5k heal crits and becomes 7.5k. Then a 30% shield is added based on this 7.5k amount. 30% of 7500 is 2250. Adding that we reach a result of a 5k gheal becoming a 9750 crit heal. Divine Aegis effectively increases our crit coefficient to 95% from 50%. This is essentially what Ruin does for warlocks (granted theirs is a slightly better one point talent and ours is a deep 3 point talent). Another great aspect about the divine aegis shields is that they CAN NOT overheal. Even if your crit is overheal your shield will still be a full 30% of the amount it would have healed. Also 25% of their absorbed damage is refunded back as mana thanks to Rapture. Taking my 5k heal example, a crit would refund 25% of 2250, or 562.5 mana. A rank 7 greater heal, with the Improved Healing talent costs a bit more then 700 mana. Dividing these amounts, a crit heal will refund nearly 80% of its mana back assuming the divine aegis buff is fully used. That is more mana then a paladin receives from thier Illumination effect! Granted this is a best-case scenario, but I feel that it is highly likely to happen normally on tanks that are taking even just moderate damage from bosses.

    Grace has been nerfed substantially yes, its really more of a foot-note of the disc tree for now. Power Infusion is nice and will be a fun spell that you can’t ignore. The new Penance is VERY efficient and useful, it heals 3 times and can potentially crit on each bolt making it worth casting every cooldown.

    Lets recap:

    Disc Pro’s:

    + Free huge shields every cooldown!
    + Crit value is greatly increased!

    Disc Minus’s

    - Shields don’t benefit from crit!
    - Absorbed damage rage generation issue for tanks is still up in the air
    - Poor multi target healing


    Edit: The spec I'd use at 80 based on current trees:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    3,376

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Discipline priests will be spamming shield every time its up, on the tanks of course and on ANYONE that takes damage. Blizzard has already discussed Rage generation regarding shields, so that will be addressed, I'm not worried.
    I'm not worried about that - I'm worried about the fact that grace as a talent is far weaker than its counter part Blessing of Sanctuary (atm). While its fast to stack it with 2 points in the talent (using penance) its still not as fast as Blessing of Sanctuary, and atm I doubt even a 10 man raid woud leave out a prot paladin, and especially not a 25 man.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  17. #17

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Disc is purely a Main tank healin spec as stated earlier.

    The benefit of being able to bring a holy priest spec'd for the 51 point, and a disc priest w/ imp Divine spirit will be huge.

    Holy priest wont have to gimp themselves out of the 51 point just to get a buff, and disc will make a great mt healer because of their huge shields.

    Also there heals will restore mana, what more can u ask for...

  18. #18

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    being a priest I use instants (shields, renew, pom, coh)
    *hem*

    Lets feed the trolls:

    If you only use instants, you suck. Sorry, but there is no other way of putting it. You miss out on Greater Heal (remember that thing grown ups use for healing their tanks 'n' stuff?). You miss out on Prayer of Healing (Remember that thing that is like CoH just with more HpS - and HpM if you got a couple of T6 items - with twice the range?). Heck, you even lose Flash Heal (yeah... not really important, i know...)

    And since you yourself mentioned a boss where it is quite possible to let people die due to spell pushback... did you ever consider that blizzard might *gasp* introduce another such fight in wotlk?
    Or even TWO?

    ....

  19. #19

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    I cannot even fathom why anyone would try to take Disc for a PvE build, especially after Grace was just completely destroyed.

    Disc is purely a Main tank healin spec as stated earlier.

    The benefit of being able to bring a holy priest spec'd for the 51 point, and a disc priest w/ imp Divine spirit will be huge.
    How is it a MT healer? It doesn't do anything better than Holy. It's throughput is FAR less and it's efficiency is less. It also arguably has even less utility. Hell, there's still no address on what will be done to fix tank issues on shielding for a tree that drops no less than a solid dozen puts on that fucking shield.

    Imp. DS is dead, maybe you're in an odd situation where you won't have a Shaman to drop Flametounge or a Mage to pop Focus Magic, but I certainly won't be.

  20. #20

    Re: Disc-build for PvE healing in Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by derevka
    A lot of priests don't seem to understand the changes to discipline yet, primarily the new emphasis on Power Word: Shield. Lots are removing Borrowed Time (PW: Shield CD reduction... woopie... but a HUGE increase to the absorption it offers!) Talented you have a flat 15% increase to Shields, and then another 40% spellpower increase. At 80 the base spell does 2230 absorption, with a 30% spellpower coefficient, then add in the talents. With 2k spellpower you have a shield that absorbs nearly 4200 damage, INSTANT! For 864 mana... (talented down from 960)... then returning 216 mana back to you from Rapture, netting 648 mana. Then with a glyph, the shield then also heals the target for 20% of the shield.
    I think that 25% of 4200damage absorbed is around 1050mana returned,more than the cost of your pw:shield.



    Lets look at what this does for a rank 7 greater heal that hits for approximately 5k at level 70.

    The 5k heal crits and becomes 7.5k. Then a 30% shield is added based on this 7.5k amount. 30% of 7500 is 2250. Adding that we reach a result of a 5k gheal becoming a 9750 crit heal. Divine Aegis effectively increases our crit coefficient to 95% from 50%. This is essentially what Ruin does for warlocks (granted theirs is a slightly better one point talent and ours is a deep 3 point talent). Another great aspect about the divine aegis shields is that they CAN NOT overheal. Even if your crit is overheal your shield will still be a full 30% of the amount it would have healed. Also 25% of their absorbed damage is refunded back as mana thanks to Rapture. Taking my 5k heal example, a crit would refund 25% of 2250, or 562.5 mana. A rank 7 greater heal, with the Improved Healing talent costs a bit more then 700 mana. Dividing these amounts, a crit heal will refund nearly 80% of its mana back assuming the divine aegis buff is fully used. That is more mana then a paladin receives from thier Illumination effect! Granted this is a best-case scenario, but I feel that it is highly likely to happen normally on tanks that are taking even just moderate damage from bosses.
    You have forgot that there is also the 2.5% heal returned as mana from Rapture, giving back 187more mana.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •