1. #1

    Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    just some observations from the most recent beta patch


    Blessings

    now im not saying change BoS back or nerf or buff etc i am asking for it to become a selfbuff/or passive ability

    the reason behind this:

    we now have 4 blessings, 2 of which are in the prot tree the other 2 are baseline with improvements in the other 2 trees. as it stands right now we will need 4 paladins in a raid to gain all blessings, 1 holy 2 prot and 1 ret or 2 holy 0 ret

    as it stands right now Kings is still the superior raid buff BUT all tanks will still want BoS as well, it is HIGHLY unlikley to have more than 1 prot paladin in a raid and most Holy Paladins are going into the ret tree (dont know if thats changed with recent patch but as of now most are going to ret for Sheath of Light) so only prot paladins will have kings but we also will have BoS as well???

    we cant place both kings and sanctuary on 1 target at the same time

    so EITHER:

    Make kings trainable which will partially solve the problem

    OR

    Make Sanctuary a selfbuff only and remove the runic power and rage

    more reasoning for this, all other tanks now have abilities to gain rage on dodge/parry/block where paladins still do not have one to themselves, now we have to give other tanks more rage when they arlready have enough rage to tank this also applys to damage mitigation, warriors 10% in def stance druids up to 25% now? come on this to us alone would give us 9% total and if given to others it just puts them more likley to be MT's than paladins.

    in summary it should be 1 imp blessing per paladin 1 Holy (wisdom) 1 Prot (Kings) 1 Ret (Might)


    Talents in General

    i noticed in the last patch that ALOT of prot warrior talents have been reduced.... i mean COME ON paladin protection tree is probably THE most bloated tree in the game and they have reduced our talents yet???

    list of the ones that NEED reducing or combining:

    Imp RF - 3 points - 2 points
    Ardent Defender - 5 points - 3
    Reckoning - 5 points - 3
    Combat expertise - one hand weapon specialisation (remove the expertise from it)


    the above change thus far i have mentioned in this post would solve the bloated protection tree and allow easier and different specs to be made, thats around 10 points shaved off for must have talents that are far to expensive for what they are


    Other talents that need adressing

    Redoubt - still scales reversly with gear, the better dodge/parry/miss you get the less redoubt will work change to activate on any strike made at the paladin, so even if completly negated will give the chance to activate it

    Reckoning - same as above allow it to work with any strike made at the paladin

  2. #2

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    put kings back into retribution, imo

  3. #3

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Just a little note: You will probably never have all 4 blessings, nor have need of them.

    Blessing of Might and Battle Shout are essentially the same buff, now, you can't have both.

    The same is true for many buffs all across the board.

  4. #4

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Stat Multiplier Buff: Blessing of Kings
    Damage Reduction Percentage Buff: Grace, Blessing of Sanctuary
    Percentage Increase Healing Received Buff: Tree of Life, Improved Devotion Aura
    Critical Strike Chance Taken Debuff (All types): Heart of the Crusader, Totem of Wrath
    Attack Power Buff (Flat Add): Battle Shout, Blessing of Might
    one exclusive, 4 shared. plus the armor from devotion and the rage(etc) from dodge on BoSanc

    tankadins have very good raid buffing potential.

  5. #5

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    At first what you say sounds like a real problem, but seeing as BoM and Battle shout won't stack you could have 1 holy paladin blessing wisdom, 1 prot blessing sanctuary and 1 ret speced into prot to bless kings.
    Its true that battle shout has only a 2 min duration right now but I'm guessing it will maybe put in line with BoM by giving it at least a 5 min, and in the long run this is going to be the way to solve the blessings problem.

    The prot tree could use some tweaks especially to some talents that have reverse scaling like you said.
    However what I massively disagree with is merging 1h Weapon specialization and Combat expertise and removing the expertise.
    Expertise has become a very, very important stat for any tank, it helps threat generation by reducing the chance the boss will dodge and parry your attacks, and it reduces damage spikes trough bosses parrying then getting 2 attacks of very, very fast.
    The one thing I really don't want to touch is expertise, leave the talent the way it is the free expertise is good and you don't have to gem and enchant gear or look for gear with expertise on to compensate its lack.

  6. #6

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    They made Battleshout and BoM not stack anymore?

  7. #7

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Samiel
    They made Battleshout and BoM not stack anymore?
    Old news, but yes.

  8. #8

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    prot tree not bloated? yeah right

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...10252155312321

    this will probably be the most standard spec for raid tanking, notice the loss in the ret tree, we cant even get deflection, thats 5% parry, and dont say we now get that in the prot tree as dodge is bs warriors got the same thing and they can EASILY get thier parry in the arms tree

    and yes i know i have 3 talent points left over there but there is nowhere to put them for any major effect but with the reductions and merges i suggested allows for this

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...10202135312321

    Edit

    also prot paladins will want at least 3 blessings, maybe 4 but doubt it, Might for increased attack power to increase threat from HotR judgements etc, Kings to increase threat and stamina and a little avoidance, Sanctuary to reduce damage and mana regen, and maybe Wisdom for more mana regen

    and yeah forgot about the Battleshout thingy

  9. #9

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    How did you think when you made a PvE tree without Reckoning? Concen -> swing SoR -> JoR are the highest threat givers for a raiding prot paladin.. Atleast a Belf

  10. #10

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Vallarian
    Edit

    also prot paladins will want at least 3 blessings, maybe 4 but doubt it, Might for increased attack power to increase threat from HotR judgements etc, Kings to increase threat and stamina and a little avoidance, Sanctuary to reduce damage and mana regen, and maybe Wisdom for more mana regen

    and yeah forgot about the Battleshout thingy
    Yes, and you forgot about the Battle Shout thingy again. They won't want Might cause they can get Battle Shout. Meaning they're only gonna want 2 or 3. Also, the way that you are posting you keep saying "Prot pallies will want..." Well, you're not gonna get everything you want, and that's the way it goes. I mean, you can tank without Wisdom. Kings and Sanctuary are awesome but you can do without Wisdom. So there you go, he buffs himself with Sanctuary and a Ret Pally specced for it will buff him with Kings.

  11. #11

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    why are all the pallies picking up seals of the pure, i dont think its that big of a deal, its holy spell dmg threat, which got NERFED. the new threat will come from STR and BV, screw seal dmg increases. dump it, go back over to ret and pick up deflection, dont screw yourself out of the good mitigation talents. youre a tank, youre job is to stay alive

  12. #12

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyleface
    why are all the pallies picking up seals of the pure, i dont think its that big of a deal, its holy spell dmg threat, which got NERFED. the new threat will come from STR and BV, screw seal dmg increases. dump it, go back over to ret and pick up deflection, dont screw yourself out of the good mitigation talents. youre a tank, youre job is to stay alive
    actually since they changed the way seals and judgments scale from SP and AP the 15% buff to the seal and judgement do increase your threat. sure you'll be doing Shield and Hammer of the righteous too but it's not gonna be enough. Since they are removing Salvation as a threat reduction buff we have to pump as much aggro as we can as a Tank. Although i do agree that dropping deflection for it is a bad idea.

  13. #13

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumidar
    actually since they changed the way seals and judgments scale from SP and AP the 15% buff to the seal and judgement do increase your threat. sure you'll be doing Shield and Hammer of the righteous too but it's not gonna be enough. Since they are removing Salvation as a threat reduction buff we have to pump as much aggro as we can as a Tank. Although i do agree that dropping deflection for it is a bad idea.
    well of course 15% more dmg is going to increase threat...

    im just saying its not worth 5 points to increase 2 aspects(the NERFED aspects of threat) instead of grabbing better mitigation/avoidance

  14. #14

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumidar
    actually since they changed the way seals and judgments scale from SP and AP the 15% buff to the seal and judgement do increase your threat. sure you'll be doing Shield and Hammer of the righteous too but it's not gonna be enough. Since they are removing Salvation as a threat reduction buff we have to pump as much aggro as we can as a Tank. Although i do agree that dropping deflection for it is a bad idea.
    It's nowhere necessary to drop deflection. Given the new information about AP affecting so much this is how I'd go for my protadin:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...10202155312301

    Seals of the pure + increased strength through talents will help build up agro.
    - Hand: n., A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody's pocket. - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

  15. #15

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by GayGirlie
    It's nowhere necessary to drop deflection. Given the new information about AP affecting so much this is how I'd go for my protadin:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...10202155312301

    Seals of the pure + increased strength through talents will help build up agro.
    one-handed spec > seals of the pure

  16. #16

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Werent seal of vengeance top dps seal some time back? i mean 2k tick can`t be that bad?

  17. #17

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Explain to me why you think Seals and judgements are NERFED for threat.

    they scale with SP and AP and don't get consumed by judgements. so please explain.

  18. #18

    Re: Observations From the Most Recent Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumidar
    Explain to me why you think Seals and judgements are NERFED for threat.

    they scale with SP and AP and don't get consumed by judgements. so please explain.
    ah gawd, slap me and call me sally

    just noticed my mistake, they moved the talented portion for righteous fury into the spell, been looking at trees this whole time, never stopped to check the actual skill list

    HRMMMM time to rethink, be back in 5, may be changing my mind!

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