Blizz should let us in so We can see how JoTW works in Beta

[cycandmath]

Blizzard should let more ret pallies in the Beta so we can see how the new JoTW works so ppl can stop QQ about it i have a ret pally my self and god from what i hear and see it is better because it works on 10 party or raid member but .5% of the max mana per sec. might not be so bad when ppl are 80.

I still got the question if it gives the mana back right away or does it just add on the ur character sheet on the mana per second slot. Can anyone answer that

[Barky]

i think Blizzard have enough paladins working on it as we speak (they're doing the best they can lol) I don't think having more paladins is the right answer though. Could lead to more complications

and i think the mana comes back as a mp5 kinda thing almost like a mana HoT

[cycandmath]

oo ok sweet me and my pally friend were talking about it last night and i think its fine if it comes back as a hot if u get like 150 or mana back for 12 sec. 150 is just a random number. Just saying

[grmpff]

if they still want pallies to take warrior gear it sucks. All our spells cost a percentage of our base mana and without int on our gear base mana = mana.
So if JoTW gives you back 6% mana over 12 sec thats 30% in 1 min.
and there wont be any other manabatteries around as hunter and shadow priest trigger the exact same effect and if i understood it correctly they dont stack.
Judgments cost 5% basemana this means it wont even return the mana from judging as in 8 sec it will only regenerate 4% mana.
The current form of JoTW will let retpallys benfit less than every other class e.g. DW-shammys as there most likey is foing to be a decent amount of int on their gear.

[Ragnarokzero]

JotW gives a buff called Replenishment to 10 raid members with the lowest mana. This buff is also provided by Shadow Priests and Survival Hunters and doesnt stack...

Replenishment grants .5% of MAX man back every second (1/200th) for 10 sec.

So if we assume a 7000 mana pool that would be 175mp5 + Imp Wis from a holy pali (at 80) 109-110 mp5= 275 mp5

275 mp5 sounds a bit on the low end to me being as everything we do excluding auto attack costs a decent amount of mana.

[grmpff]

the amount of mana our spells cost is irrelevant. with that i mean the actual number like 200 mana.
as every spell costs a fixed amount of basemana and replenishment works by giving you a percentage of maxmana.
IF paladins are meant by blizzard to wear warriorgear this also means that they are the only mana using class that doesent have any int on their items.
So for a mage wich has 1k int on his gear replenishment = fine. for pallys with zero int from gear = fail.
there are some ways this could be changed. giving us lower cost for our spells (still sucks if there is manaburn/drain around) or letting us wear mail with a armor modifer AND changing our attackpowercalc. to that of hunters/dwshammys or changing JoTW into a 2 component spell 1 being replenishment the other mana exlusivly for the paladin based on dmg done

[exphius]

aight listen up, i had gotten a beta key and tried it out for myself.

it isn't as bad as i thought, but still needs a little work. The mana you get back from replenish is kinda a joke but i personally never run outta mana cause i switch to seal of wisdom here and there. All i see that need to happen to judgment of the wise is alittle better mana return to the ret paladin himself since its based of our ever so small mana pool size.
As far as everyone else in my group, it seems to be jut fine.

[BubbaJim]

if they still want pallies to take warrior gear it sucks. All our spells cost a percentage of our base mana and without int on our gear base mana = mana.

no

thats not what base mana is. Base mana is the mana pool you'd have if you had 0 int. not 0+ int, 0 int. You may notice that when you levelled on your paladin you'd get "Congratulations you've achieved level ... You gain X mana, 2 int, 2 str" or whatever.. it's the Mana you have w/o and int. At lvl 70 for a paladin that's about 2800ish (cant remember the right number).

Also people KEEP thinking of the paladin in it's current state.. forgettin that the changes to seals/judgements means that we have a Seal up for 2 mins (no need to recast that..) and JoW is 1 of 3 judgements we use as dmg spells.. so just use JoW along with ur usual Seal and you'll find that the mana return from JoTW, whilst not as good as the original 60% of dmg, is still pretty decent.

grr

[Rollo]

dont ret paladins still have judgement of wisdom to go along with JotW? i was under the assumption paladins had their 3 judgements, and would most likely be using JoW while raiding (or interchange wisdom with life i guess depending on circumstance). has this changed?

the JoW tooltip i just read was (9% ap + 9% sp) back to the attacker per hit. so if a ret paladin at 80 has 3k ap, with the ap --> sp talent, they would get 360 mana back per hit. JotW works on the 10 targets with the lowest mana. with a 3.6 speed wpn, they would be gaining 500 mp5 just on auto swings alone. add in divine storm and crusader strike for added "return" on the mana spent on them. lastly...divine plea? its a holy skill, not talent. 50% mana back in 6 seconds every 5 minutes? its not break, but its better than nothing.

anyone know what base mana for a paladin at 80 is?

[Unorthodox]

Personally i feel this topic is an attention seeking topic to receive a beta key but forget about that.
Jotw pov tho i feel that a little more mana pool back maybe depending on the size of the mana pool itself should make the skill scale better. Just like to make it clear that the final build has not been released and there is still room for improvements on every class as not everything is complete. I have yet had time to test Jotw on my paladin since the current beta build was released so when i do get the time i will post more of my 2 cents on the matter.
Also the final line of the above poster is true also.
Id advice not QQ'ing and boo'ing game designers before even trying it yourself also (References to the many Flame Kalgan threads going on at the moment)

[Deleted]

without int on our gear base mana = mana.

Wrong.

[exphius]

i just needs a little twinking, atm it requires you to keep blessing of wisdom on yourself and to switch off to seal of wisdom here and there.
This is what i wanna do if i wanna keep DS, CS, judgement on there cd's on my dps rotation. Honestly its not that bad, like i said. All that needs to happen is "replenishment" needs to scale a little bit better for the paladin because of it based of our low mana pool.
The reason i say it needs to scale a little better is because i dont believe we should be stuck using seal of wisdom over might for the ret tree... or having to seal twist constantly.


Atm replenish for almost all other classes(i have grouped with) that have 9-12k mana can almost sustain constant dps indefinetly.

[StormScion]

i just needs a little twinking, atm it requires you to keep blessing of wisdom on yourself and to switch off to seal of wisdom here and there.
This is what i wanna do if i wanna keep DS, CS, judgement on there cd's on my dps rotation. Honestly its not that bad, like i said. All that needs to happen is "replenishment" needs to scale a little bit better for the paladin because of it based of our low mana pool.
The reason i say it needs to scale a little better is because i dont believe we should be stuck using seal of wisdom over might for the ret tree... or having to seal twist constantly.


Atm replenish for almost all other classes(i have grouped with) that have 9-12k mana can almost sustain constant dps indefinetly.

i am in beta ... atm if u go with seal of wisdom u will never need to drink ... but again u cant use dmg seals... so i dont know i hope they give us some bonus ... maybe 30% of dmg done to us as mana or something.

[exphius]

i am in beta ... atm if u go with seal of wisdom u will never need to drink ... but again u cant use dmg seals... so i dont know i hope they give us some bonus ... maybe 30% of dmg done to us as mana or something.

Almost the same of what i did, expect i had to use blessing of wisdom as well ><
but for sure, it needs to scale a little better for many reasons;
1. our mana pool vs every other mana pool= we dont get half the mana everyone else gets from "replenish".
2. We shouldnt be forces as a dps spec to use BOW over might or constant seal twist (command/wisdom).

[grmpff]

If they want to balance replenishment for all classes the ~200 int you will have raidbuffed are irrelevant as every class has more or less the same int from "base" stats arcan int etc.

still the ratio at lvl70 for my naked paladin is only 1 base mana to 1.3 maxmana and if that dosent change the 1%basemanausage/second of DS versus the 0.65%basemanagain/second from replenishment doesent sound to good to me

[nazrakin]

I don't see why they don't just give Ret Pallies an activated mana regen ability as they have with every other mana class in the game.

[Barky]

well we do have that sort of evocation prayer thing, but thats a channeled spell and means youll be out of combat for 6 seconds and a hit cancels it

but yeah its not that impressive, specially in comparison with Shamanistic rage, shamans say enhancement didnt get mana back so they got that which is a damn impressive skill

Hope blizz give us something not exactly the same ofc, but good enough as that

~Barky~

[exphius]

I feel like im experiencing Dejavu... so many of these threads of the exact same thing >< (even the poll)

[exphius]

They do.

I will admit, I hate the threads that repeat themselves.... Jotw got nerfed... it suxorz i hate blizzard, and i go post my whole rant about numbers and giving them a chance, and the new system.

It is the nature of people however. They want their post to be the top, and they want to reinstate ideas, and what better way then making a new thread rather hten posting ina t hread people have been talking in for 5 days. I know for one i try and keep out of threads more then 2 pages long. Why? because alot of times it becomes redundant.

Other then posting numbers and inteligent posts there is not much more to say about the subject.

nicely said, i will agree for the most part.
Its more or less when i hit the paladin forums, 4 of the threads on the FIRST page are about this subject. Its not like they are hard to miss ><

[Rhozul]

Blizzard should let more ret pallies in the Beta so we can see how the new JoTW works so ppl can stop QQ about it i have a ret pally my self and god from what i hear and see it is better because it works on 10 party or raid member but .5% of the max mana per sec. might not be so bad when ppl are 80.

I still got the question if it gives the mana back right away or does it just add on the ur character sheet on the mana per second slot. Can anyone answer that

Might be a little easier to just ask a Beta Ret Paladin tbh. You could also wait until the patch 3.0 PTR testing, which everyone is invited to try.