Question for Locks (re: afflic)

[Sarevokcz]

well, i have no idea what demo/destro means until u gave me numbers, i am too used to 41/20 destro demo from tbc, and demonic pact is best buff in in his category, making it pretty interesting choice for pve

also, old shamans are used to it also, it was, it is and it looks like it will be in 90% just "go resto and heal"


yea, afflics sux and if nothing is done it will sux even more, they are pretty fine in lower level of content for sure, t4 t5, but who cares about those nowadays anyway, yea, i agree, they deserve major fix, but they are not alone who needs some serious overhaul

[frester]

@OP

guess you have this GAME wrong

you don't need to make choices between your favorite and best, and you are brought to raid to have fun with others not only to deliver.

blizz has put a lot of effort in making raid setups as flexible as possible so please understand that not everybody wants to re-spec to deliver, some want to have fun and do what he likes to do.

but your damage should be at least competitive.

[Mayhem]

very nice said, for i am still and allways be a master of demons, even if they tell everyone that i am weak and shit, grmpf

one of my best friends in his heart will allways be an affliction warlock becouse of the points wabun just mentioned

[ascote]

What's the difference between bolt nuking and bolt nuking? None, and mages still have both fire AND frost being PvE viable. So what, frost is just a bit less, who cares, affliction is just a bit less viable and brings raid utility.

I do think affliction locks deserve a viability in WOTLK because I am raid viable in TBC. I'm affliction for shadow embrace/malediction in sunwell, where before you think about killing the boss you need your tanks surviving.

All of this talk about going casual and such sicken me, I had to sweat, learn the fine tune and get skill to raid with some of the top guilds in my server. I don't want to go back and raid with so called casuals that take 20 min between pulls because some bastards think its right to waste my time while they smoke a cigarette each 5 min.

That being said, there's almost no difference on your gaming experience when you spec between your different mage specs, while affliction playing affliction is completely different than playing destro. That's the whole point on us thinking we deserve raid viability (the fact that I pay a subscription to play an utility debuffer class also counts).

[delage35]

why shouldnt ALL classes raid in all 3 specs?

Because the developers have said over and over and over again that they have NO intention of doing that. They intend to make each class be raid and pvp viable, not each and every spec be optimized for both.

Given that as the destination, decide whether you want to get on the bus or STFU and stay home.

[Sarevokcz]

Because the developers have said over and over and over again that they have NO intention of doing that. They intend to make each class be raid and pvp viable, not each and every spec be optimized for both.

Given that as the destination, decide whether you want to get on the bus or STFU and stay home.

first: i was pointing at flaw, where he stated "why shouldnt warlocks raid with all 3 specs"

second: i remember those quotes from Blues "well, there will be 30 specs and only 25 ppl, someone has to be left home" which in fact does mean they would like to make all, or most specs raid viable, which goes in line with changes in buffs and making raids more "fun with friends, not minmaxing" way

third: if u didnt noticed, shaman didnt really have pvp viable spec in tBC like sl/sl locks, subt rogues, arms warrs or resto druids, kthx, if none of my specs is really viable in pvp, i will want to be viable in pve, kthx

[Nilaihah]

Did people really roll Paladins to spec Ret? It's a tanking or healing class, with the ability to group support in a quasi-dps mode as well. Paladins have the best buffs, are the best MT healers, best multi-mob tanks, and STILL want to be competitive dps? Why not give them stealth and group heals and just remove all the other classes :P?

It wasn't what it was advertised, to be honest. My first character was a Paladin because they advertised it as a melee/healer hybrid from the very beginning. I was thinking it'd be something like Diablo Paladins, boy was I in for a surprise...

For that fact, Paladins were complete rubbish tanks in release.

In the current iteration they're not that bad though, a few flaws but I managed more than well in raiding. I did 1st in Najentus and in Illidari Council a few times, got pretty far up in the damage meters for other encounters. Heck, I didn't do that bad in Illidan, and that considering most the fight is ranged.

Didn't really do SW (schedule really doesn't allow me to raid anymore) more than a couple of times, and wasn't doing bad at all.

Sure, the class isn't perfect - but if you gear properly you can perform and I was quite happy with it in PvE.

In Arena 2v2 Ret Paladins are rightfully popular, as well.

Hm, wow, this was quite the threadjack!

Anyway, back to locks, it is probable that Aff and Arcane will see a comeback - Especially now that Spirit Link is really accessible, I see a heavy Aff build as the weapon of choice for PvP if nothing else.

[Unspoken]

Please allow me an offtopic approach:

Blizzard is messing with our heads since she's making us fight over non existent (until recently) issues.

No Hybrid ever asked to top meters, they just asked to be viable and offer a dps-hps/utility ratio in order to justify some raiding spots.
No Non-Hybrid ever asked extra utility, especially against Hybrids.

Shadow priests, Arms Warriors, Enhancement Shamans, Bear Druids, Protection Paladins were fine examples from classes that were successful on fulfilling there roles while being supportive.

Blizzard instead of trying to be somehow creative decided to change something that noone asked for,when in reality the solution would be to make the remaining class trees appealing to pick from.

TBC didn't had Vaelastrasz encounters, atleast not before Muru, i am constantly reading blue posters reasoning there changes behind "brick wall encounters" and here stands the paradox, instead them making sure that there encounters are non class stacking/specific class dependant they are changing the utility tables...

It's like fucking going to the doctor for a headache and find yourself missing a hand on your way out ;D

Back on topic,

It's fucking simple that everyone has gone nuts since almost all class defining abilities have been mirrored making the term "uniqueness" sound like a old,bad joke.

I am not going to further blame Hybrids or Non Hybrids after this for wanting a "role", but the truth remains that we all were a*******d the hard way.

[Priderage]

Why do most (some?) Warlocks feel that they have a RIGHT to have Affliction based PvE specs put out the same kind of damage as a Destro or hybrid Destro spec? It seems that there are a lot of thread about buffing Affliction damage because it's subpar to Destro (very true, no scaling with crit/haste is Bad), but any time the suggestion that they spec to a PvE Destro based one it's met with cries of "OMG NO WAI AFFLIC 4 LIFE!"

My friend, I once had a Mage who was very unsatisfied with the way that Frost was working in PvE. He was irritated with his total lack of damage output whilst trying it in some instances, and to remedy this, I simply suggested to try a new talent setup, at which point he became stubborn as a mule and refused to budge from his talent spec.

I observed that regardless of the fact that it wasn't working, he would continuously try and put a square peg through a round hole, trying the same procedure, expecting different results. I suggested again to try it, and he simply discounted that I ever said the sentence in the first place.

I chalked it down to this: people are simply stubborn and refuse to adapt to a situation. This is because of two observable things - that they either enjoy the way that a talent setup works - personally, I am very fond of the way Afflictionists play - or that they simply refuse to try something different sheerly because of their nature.

I would answer this, original poster: it's just basic pride that keeps these people from trying something new, much like a farmer who refuses to move, even though his farmland went barren years ago. He simply doesn't move because he's far too stubborn to do something so relatively simple and logical.

[Funkatron]

I would answer this, original poster: it's just basic pride that keeps these people from trying something new, much like a farmer who refuses to move, even though his farmland went barren years ago. He simply doesn't move because he's far too stubborn to do something so relatively simple and logical.

That's true, if farming were a game that he were paying for, and he did try moving and that wasn't fun. Why pay for a game and then play it in a way that is not fun?

[daveyman]

Farmers don't like Sbolt spamming, thats a fact.

[Shazea]

Farmer's fancy tractor has no fuel, so he has to use his pitchfork to do the job.

...makes his job quite unappealing and not that effective.

[Unspoken]

I would answer this, original poster: it's just basic pride that keeps these people from trying something new, much like a farmer who refuses to move, even though his farmland went barren years ago. He simply doesn't move because he's far too stubborn to do something so relatively simple and logical.

That pretty much cracked me up, i salute you

What's really funny is that the reasoning behind most of the "defending the new situation" posts ends up with a "Reroll and Profit", that's somehow a divine justice since that argument was abused over the years against them (and they didn't liked it).

There is no point on continuing this grudge, atleast not in my PoV.

Every class has it's issues, but on most there are visible signs to point the direction, hell even protection warrior changes (that are significant to say the least) have gotten enough babysitting and reasoning in order for the community to not go berserk, Druid also have some major changes and still there is the same babysitting pointing them the final destination, problems occur with every class but on worst case scenarios there are 1,2 VIABLE trees left.

Warlocks got nothing to make them feel better than before, Affliction remains broken, Demonology remains mediocre and since there will not be such thing as "warlock tank" is really a tree without objectives (other than PvP) and finally Destruction is basically hanging on Backdraft's potential to only manage competitive to TBC (not better) results.

Warlocks so far are not done and we know that, but unlikely to every other class we seem to don't have a goal point, meaning that current talents/orientation even after Huge amounts of buffing will not deliver what's needed for the class to be fun again, before people start flaming me with "you were TBC kings" arguments i am informing you that we were equally broken on TBC but the performance of one single spell (shadow bolt) acted like a tranquilizer on most.

If someone has a different opinion i would gladly read it tho i don't really see any potential on our current incarnation, buffing corruption or shadowbolt for 20% will not get the job done and i am more than sure that warlock community learned this lessons by now.

No more bandainds, no more one button wonder specs, we need, WE DEMAND our thousand pages of feedback to final be used as a guide to fix this damn class, if not, well who the fuck cares we'll spend our 15 euros on something else.