Bom vs battle shout!

[b37x]

PvE Ret builds will most likely pick up Kings.
PvP Ret builds will most likely skip Kings to get 5/5 Toughness now that it reduces the duration of movement slowing effects by 50%.

[Mandible]

Crimsonak - Blessing of Sanc procs 10 rage, 10 runic power or 2% mana off blocks, Parries and Dodge.

[Crimsonak]

Crimsonak - Blessing of Sanc procs 10 rage, 10 runic power or 2% mana off blocks, Parries and Dodge.

Then thats my mistake, I wasn't aware that any change had been made to it in LK.

10 rage is insane though, especially since there are talents already implimented to give you rage off successful parries and dodges. Can pretty much forsee full avoidance tanking.

[b37x]

You mean warriors might not have to sit to generate rage? OP IMO

[Auton]

PvE Ret builds will most likely pick up Kings.
PvP Ret builds will most likely skip Kings to get 5/5 Toughness now that it reduces the duration of movement slowing effects by 50%.

Uhh.. not likely no.. My ret PVE build on live doesn't even go deep enough for kings, and if I could get away with it I would drop all of my Prot talents. I only have 8 in that tree right now because of Precision. My build for LK so far is coming up as a 0/5/66 because there's no reason for me to gimp myself even a tiny bit just to go another 6 into prot to get Kings.

[Gaeryth]

A paladin is based around utility and demanding your own maximizing dps spec instead of boosting the raid is selfish. Due to crappy design the Prot paladin is the only one that can do Sanctuary, so either the Holy or the Ret must do Kings. Currently most Holy go for a Holy/Prot build for Kings and some survivability while Retris need to waste points in shit like Imp Devo Aura to get to the +hit and can't put away more points for utility.

In Wrath the "sheath spec" – healing Holy + AP>SP part of Ret – will probably be influential if not the general healing spec, because of the lack of BoL enthusiasm. And with that spec BoK is impossible to get. Retri, however, don't have the same problems with their points and they're the ones that can get BoK while sacrifice the least of their other important talents.

Although everyone wants that BoK should be baseline for all paladins :P

[Wolluis]

The holy paladin has Speced into imp Bow so that leaves up 4 classes he can spec with Bok. If the holy paladin doesn't have Bok and the Retri paladin has. The retri paladin will be orderd to give Bok to the warrior, DK, Rogues and the Holy paladin will give a Crapy GBoM. This is why the Holy paladin has to spec BoK. The only class that binefits from this is the Druid(boomkin +healing) as he now will get a GBOW from the holy paladin who is speced for it.

[Proudfoot]

A paladin is based around utility and demanding your own maximizing dps spec instead of boosting the raid is selfish. Due to crappy design the Prot paladin is the only one that can do Sanctuary, so either the Holy or the Ret must do Kings. Currently most Holy go for a Holy/Prot build for Kings and some survivability while Retris need to waste points in shit like Imp Devo Aura to get to the +hit and can't put away more points for utility.

In Wrath the "sheath spec" – healing Holy + AP>SP part of Ret – will probably be influential if not the general healing spec, because of the lack of BoL enthusiasm. And with that spec BoK is impossible to get. Retri, however, don't have the same problems with their points and they're the ones that can get BoK while sacrifice the least of their other important talents.

Although everyone wants that BoK should be baseline for all paladins :P

Ya I won't be taking Kings either, my current build will be 0/5/66 since I can't see wasting talents in Prot just to get a buff that should be baseline.

[Syrda]

10 rage is insane though, especially since there are talents already implimented to give you rage off successful parries and dodges. Can pretty much forsee full avoidance tanking.

This talent was taken out again and put into arms with 6 rage / parry. Might still be reachable as prot though, but who stacks parry?

[b37x]

deathknights stack parry

[meroko]

With the new change to Beacon of Light (a Binding Heal on steroids) i most likely won't be picking up sheath of light which is basically a situational HoT anyway....

Think about it, how many times are we going to heal someone that doesn't heal them to full ESPECIALLY with major buff we got to our heals (all heals heal for about 1.5k more because of light being rolled into the heal) ...yes Sheath of Light will have it's uses (i think mostly PVP) but the way beacon is currently set it will be far superior. One example of a current TBC fight w/ 3 pallies that have beacon? Brutallus. Burn healing simplified my friends.

With that said, I wouldn't be picking up sheath so I might be able to have enough points for Kings but basically...finding a paladin with Kings might be a dime a dozen, this is why there is a big petition going around to make Kings trainable instead of talented lol.

[Whitcher]

Did I miss something that said BS and BoM don't stack anymore?

[b37x]

Apparently so, whitcher

[Kibeth]

Yeah, they don't stack anymore.

[Tigercat]

Then thats my mistake, I wasn't aware that any change had been made to it in LK.

10 rage is insane though, especially since there are talents already implimented to give you rage off successful parries and dodges. Can pretty much forsee full avoidance tanking.

That talent USED to exist. Then Blizzard decided to toss it into prot in a bastardized form out of reach of prot builds.

A blue post a little while back mentioned finding another way to do it though, I just have to wonder if the new Sanc is that way.

It's going to suck being forced to bring a protadin more than a raid is forced to bring any other single class/spec combo.