Seals at lvl 80

[Temorac]

My question to all the beta-testing paladins out there is:

For a PvE retri paladin, which seal will be causing the most damage?
Will it be SoC, SoB or SoV?

Well my guess is that SoB>SoC as it is in TBC atm.

But i think SoV will do more damage than SoB, would be nice if anyone could do any maths on it.

And aswell, 1 question concerning SoB: The damage it does is taken from the character sheet (with all the buffs and before armor) or does it aswell benefit from debuffs (like Blood Frenzy)?

[blitzme99]

All I can tell you is that at level 74 I use the following

Seal of command: - Best used while grinding low hit point mobs. Seal of corruption takes too long to stack to out dps seal of command.

Seal of Corruption: - When fighting elites and bosses this is the ultimate in DPS. I have about 2000 AP with my ret pally which is nothing special and I am using gorehowl. Seal of corruption ticks for about 960 damage a second with 5 stacks.

I have personally not messed around with seal of blood yet. I was going to try it out soon on some elites and see what the DPS was.

[exphius]

seal of command has the best burst damage.
seal of corruption has the best dps over a long period of time
seal of blood imo is useless now

[Nilaihah]

seal of blood imo is useless now

Far from the truth, neither of the other two seals scale as well from haste. Also, if things stay as they are, the damage you take will continue to be pivotal to keeping mana in long fights.

[deo]

so haste is bad for a pala with the other 2 seals?

[Lumidar]

seal of blood does damage to you so if you are low on mana it might be better to use that so u get healed and gain mana during raids. (obviously for pve)

[Yvert]

so haste is bad for a pala with the other 2 seals?

Only for command. For blood/martyr it's better because it hits every swing you land so with haste the faster you swing the more damage done with blood/martyr.

EDIT: forget what i said i read your post wrong lol.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

SOR scales pretty well now, do not count it out, as it too garners an AP bonus, AND scales with haste.

SoV/Cor do the highest flat damage, but do not scale well with crit or haste, just AP/Spell Damage.

SoR scales with haste and AP/Spell Damage, but not with crit.

SoComm scales with crit and AP/Spell Damage, but not with haste.

SoB/M scale with both crit and haste, as well as AP/Spell Damage, the judgement is also pretty hard hitting, pretty consistently, the only harder hitting Judgement is Command against a stunned opponent, or SoR/SoV if your weapon damage is low.

Based on your stat allocation, you'll likely be using SoV/Cor on long fights, possibly with SoR/Comm/Blood woven in between the 15 second DoT.

SoR will be good if you have high haste/AP but low crit.

SoComm will be good if you have no haste, but plenty of AP/Crit.

SoB/M will always be a good choice, but especially so if your Haste/Crit are better than your AP/Spell Damage.

[Nilaihah]

so haste is bad for a pala with the other 2 seals?

Not really. Most Ret damage comes from white damage and white damage goes up with haste. But SoB scales the best because it is not a proc, hence not tied to a number of occurrences per minute.

[StormScion]

I am not on lvl80 yet but i did nexus and utgarde and seal of blood is just ftw with divine storm. U will never go oom , when u do judgemenet of blood for 6k u will allways have mana. Seal of martyr is great as well , i use it on bosses to give time for tank to get agro , then when i stack 5 i do 7k judge and swap to seal of blood , after 10 sec i just refresh martyr do judge and again on blood. Great dmg.

For solo i use seal of command when i am at 30% of mana i pull 4 mobs and use seal of wisdom , still kill them in matter of seconds and after that i leave combat full of mana and 80% of hp.

[Paladonious]

Seal Twist FTW!!!


lol just kidding.

[mcstu]

You will be able to answer all these questions easily now that target dummies will be in dal . Even lvl80 elites i believe.

[thethain]

Seals should always be available, even at 80!

[Biral]

What a lot of people are failing to realize is that SoB/SotM have the same coefficients for damage that SoV/SoCorr has, and that an additional bonus to this coeff. is your additional weapon damage.

This said, you'll be doing the same amount of damage with SoV/SoCorr if you changed from 2 hander to 1 hander while maintaining attack power and spell damage.

Obviously, once a good weapon is obtained, SoB/SotM will overpower SoV/SoCorr substantially.

[thethain]

@biral

Are you including the +50% damage to judgements and +15% damage from talents?

[meliancill]

sob and sotm are the best dps seals for raids when you have haste. if you dont have all that much haste then maybe sov is a better choice.

[thethain]

Paladin with 3k AP
900 SP
Using Nax 25 Trash Loot 2H Mace
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...xxramas_02.jpg
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000
AP adds 728 Damage to weapon making it do
1282 - 1559 Weaopn Damage

Now for the seals/Judgements
Seal of Vengeance - 42% of AP + 20% of Spell Power
[1260 + 180] * 5(stacks) * 1.15(talents) over 15 seconds
552 DPS (after full stacks)
JUDGEMENT - 36% of AP + 58% of Spell Power + 1
[1080+522+1] * 1.5(stacks) * 1.15 (talents)
2765 Every 8 Seconds
345 DPS
Final - 897 DPS

Seal of Blood - [35% of mw] to [35% of MW]
448 to 545 Every 3.4 Seconds
146 DPS
JUDGEMENT - [ 36% of AP + 58% of Spell Power + 45% of mw ] to [ 36% of AP + 58% of Spell Power + 45% of MW ]
[1080+522+576] to [1080+522+701]
2240 Every 8 Seconds
280 DPS
Final -426 DPS
OR 146*1.2(windfury/impicytalons)+280=
455 DPS with 20% Haste

Seal of Righteousness - 5% of MWS * AP + 10% of MWS * Healing
[3.4*.05*3000]+[3.4*.1*900]
510+306 = 816*1.15(talents)=938 Per 3.4 Seconds
276 DPS
JUDGEMENT - 1+0.45*AP+0.73*SP (this is from thott instead of mmo becuase their current reightouesness lists no judgement)
(1+[.45*3000]+[.73*900])*1.15(talents)
2309 Every 8 Seconds
288 DPS
Final - 564 DPS
OR 276 *1.2 (WF/IIT) + 288
619 With 20% haste

I could have boned the math all to hell but it looks like Vengeance will ultimately win out if its a sustained fight. Altho the earlier people are right in the fact that since you only have to hit ONCE every 15 seconds to maintain Vengeance/CT seal twisting would max your DPS. Someone please correct my Seal of Blood becuase it seems its way to weak.

Edit: Just to note The dps listed is JUST the dps for the seal/judgement, it is ignoring any autoattacks/Crusader strikes and divine storms. It also ignores vengeance and sanctified retribution since they should affect all equally.
I Should however add 6% damage to Blood for 2-Weapon Spec and 3% to Blood and Righteousness Seal DPS from Swift Retribution, but I am tired, just imagine the numbers slightly higher. Also Crit will affect Seal of Righteousness AND Seal of Bloods SEAL damage by a % based off of your crit. Meaning Seal of Righteousness would likely end up the winner once you are uber buffed.

[Biral]

My position on the matter is that Seal of Vengeance/Corruption needs to be a tanking Seal, not a Seal used by Retadins. Placing a DoT on the target to do damage just goes against the Paladin mindset anyway.

In my opinion, they need to tone down SoV/Corr and improve SoB/SotM so that it is apparent which is needed to be used. As well as making it so we CAN use a DPS Seal without going OOM in 30 seconds due to lack of SoW procs.

A Paladin shouldn't be forced to use SoW to maintain mana to keep doing Divine Storm and Crusader Strike. Just like Ghostcrawler said: "We can design this class around 'Ohh this guy can do this thing but runs out of mana quickly while doing it'. That's just not fun." Being forced to use SoW to keep mana up while using Divine Storm and Crusader Strike is stupid and having to use a Seal originally intended for tanking while having no benefit when using a higher damage weapon and STILL doing more damage than Command or Blood/Martyr is stupid as well.

They need to redo the Seals and make the obvious ones for certain jobs shine more in that job, and lack the luster while doing another.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

My position on the matter is that Seal of Vengeance/Corruption needs to be a tanking Seal, not a Seal used by Retadins. Placing a DoT on the target to do damage just goes against the Paladin mindset anyway.

In my opinion, they need to tone down SoV/Corr and improve SoB/SotM so that it is apparent which is needed to be used. As well as making it so we CAN use a DPS Seal without going OOM in 30 seconds due to lack of SoW procs.

A Paladin shouldn't be forced to use SoW to maintain mana to keep doing Divine Storm and Crusader Strike. Just like Ghostcrawler said: "We can design this class around 'Ohh this guy can do this thing but runs out of mana quickly while doing it'. That's just not fun." Being forced to use SoW to keep mana up while using Divine Storm and Crusader Strike is stupid and having to use a Seal originally intended for tanking while having no benefit when using a higher damage weapon and STILL doing more damage than Command or Blood/Martyr is stupid as well.

They need to redo the Seals and make the obvious ones for certain jobs shine more in that job, and lack the luster while doing another.

I dont like your logic one bit.

That's the kind of thinking that takes the FLAVOR and OPTIONS out of things.

I want to be able to pick the seal that I like the best because it suits my playstyle, not because it's "obvious which one is designed for Ret"

That's what this entire x-pac is trying to do away with, numbers stacking that take the fun out of things.

I dont like SoB/M, I think they're perfectly Paladin-ish, but just not my cup of tea, I want to light the enemy up in righteous fire, and watch them burn. That sounds like SoV. If I had my way, Seal of Command would ultimately = Seal of Vengeance = Seal of the Martyr = Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Command would be for melee thrills and for people who like bigger numbers and bursty damage, Seal of Vengeance would be for slower build ups, and for people who dont really mind low numbers, Seal of Righteousness for smooth, steady, always-even damage, and Seal of the Martyr for steadier damage than command, but still the opportunity for big numbers.

In short: I dont want to be emo, if you want to, fine, but dont force SoB on me just because it USED to be the best, and you want it to stay that way.

[sirpn5]

I thought GC said that SoB/SotM is being buff to what it was pre 3.0. Did I misunderstood or did I just make this up? :-\