Rogues replace Ret?

[friggo]

2 percent damage increase to anyone effected by sanc auror, 3 percent hit rating? 3 percent crit. refreshes all judgements on the target, blessing of might kings and light?

and theyare now a mana bettery i dunno how good but they still are 1....

not sure if i'm right now, but didnt they remove the judgement refresh thingy on cs?

[Karaghan]

Too bad ret pallies won't be doing 95% of the damage a rogue does.

I lolled at this post.
Ret paladin does 2300-2400 DPS (and im sorry to say but rogues are not doing dps like this in beta atm)in 80lvl gladiator but goes oom in 40 seconds.
Tbh if i would be a rogue i would back us a bit with mana regen and lowering our dps a bit.

[Ulrik.]

Seems fair to me, everyone else have to work for raid spot why shouldn´t retardins need to?

[neh0e]

@friggo

wouldn't suprise me if they did, i dont know anything about it.

blizzard hates paladins and none of devs play it, its quite possibly the worst class in game and i think there main purpose of wrath of the lich king is to make everyone who plays paladin to have enough and quit and roll death knight.

[Montoya]

2 percent damage increase to anyone effected by sanc auror, 3 percent hit rating? 3 percent crit. refreshes all judgements on the target, blessing of might kings and light?

and theyare now a mana bettery i dunno how good but they still are 1....

You forgot 3% Haste (Swift Retribution Talent), and where are you getting this hit rating from?

Oh, add in there healing from Divine Storm.

[Lumidar]

2 percent damage increase to anyone effected by sanc auror, 3 percent hit rating? 3 percent crit. refreshes all judgements on the target, blessing of might kings and light?

and theyare now a mana bettery i dunno how good but they still are 1....

i think some1 needs to read the patches again...

Sanc Aura is GONE... but there is a talent in lower tiers that does the same thing with Ret Aura. i also don't get the hit rating.... the 3% Crit we just said can be given by rogues now. CS no longer refreshes judgemens, all pallies judge for themselves now since Holy can cast from far with the talent.... Blessing of might no longer stacks with Battle shout and is pretty much uselsss even with improved might. KINGS, the only buff that is truly Paladin. Blessing of light NO LONGER Exists and has been molded into the base skills

so ya... only Kings and "Ret aura" in a way make a Ret pally useful but Kings can be taken by prot and holy as well...

[Kibeth]

Hmm... Ret... fucked over so many times by blizzard... however, in WotLK, they still provide 2% damage and 3% crit, regardless of whether it stacks or not, imp BoM> BS simply because BS affects melee dps... not sure if it became cool to quit bringing hunters to raid... but yeah, you get the idea. Not to mention 3% more haste, more threat for your tanks due to the reflective damage of retribution aura, especially your prot pally tanks, another set of buffs in general is just nice, and a mana battery that works exactly the same way shadow priests do. Also, pretty sure paladins are going to be fairly decent aoe in the expansion considering the ap/sp conversion talent and the ap/sp coeffecient in all of their skills, divine storm and consecrate will be pretty sweet for aoeing, somewhat like fury warriors are in tbc. To all of you saying that it's too bad that ret paladins don't do 95% of the damage that rogues do... well it's beta... things are subject to change... and in tbc, as a ret paladin i have yet to meet the rogue with equal gear that out dpses me.... Only rogues I know that can out dps me are those with the warglaives or full t6/sunwell gear... I'm in t5/hyjal quality gear... The point is this, to me, the fact that bs and bom and the 3% crit do not stack with anything else doesn't mean anyone is replacing anything, it just means that you'll have to earn your raid spot, which is how it should have been in the first place.

[Kibeth]

I don't know anything about who's doing what in sunwell. I've never been, probably never will be. Also, most of those rogues in sunwell probably have already obtained their warglaives from illidan. And newsflash... those warglaives are fuckin' ridiculous. I'm just saying as of right now in t5/hyjal/bt content, I don't know any rogues that out dps me, given that they have equal gear... I put out like 1400 dps as an average and can get up to like 1800 depending on group make up and consumables...I know rogues that get pretty much the exact same thing, but never more. I'm tired of hearing this bullshit like it's impossible for ret paladins to dps... maybe the gear gap is huge in sunwell or something but like i said, I'm just basing my statement on personal experience.

[Kibeth]

oh and as far as WotLK goes... only time will tell.... It's the beta people... sure rogues and bm hunters are looking really good right now, and maybe they will be top dps... but there's still plenty of room for change, bug fixes... better class mechanics for everyone... I'm not saying it will happen, but don't go jumping to conclusions until we know the exact release date for the expansion and what the classes are looking like about 1-2 weeks before that date.

[Benj]

My question is, just to be more clear, :

Why should I take a Ret paladin when a Rogue can do good DPS, has an Interrupt and gives the same 3% Critical debuff?

I still don't understand what you are talking about. It only affects the rogue and it isn't some buff you can put on other players.

And rogues>ret paladins anyway.

[wingman]

Then spec Prot or Holy. Problem solved.

If you rolled a Pally to dps, then sorry to break it to you. You are not a Warrior with a blue rage bar.

you have no fucking idea how the game is judged you retard, there is no rule that said paladins cant be dps, yes we are a defensive hybrid, that just means we have more defensive capabilities compared with offensive ones like shamans have purge and we have dispel (even tho fucking blizz cant get that right either)

i really hate retards that say this shit when ALL three specs as paladins arent viable anyway, where we hell do you get the idea that we are meant to be tanks and healers when our tank and healing specs are just as bad, IF NOT WORSE then our DPS spec.

fucking retards have no idea about classes, we are divided into specs, not roles, learn2play... dont QQ just because you rolled rogue and have the best PVP DPS and CC in the game while Paladins have jackshit apart from three bad pvp and pve specs

[Skalu]

ok enough crap written here... sorry but... this is what I see !

Now just stop crying, and wait for changes, this is the only thing you can do, so...

Are you really thinking Blizzard could say everywhere that they want every spec to be viable for PvP and PvE, but totally screwing one as you say in this topic ???

Say anything about how Blizzard developes games, but if you really think what you say, stop playing now you can't be giving money to such idiotic people, liers on top of that...

[mariokartjoey]

Lets compare us to a rogue from a raid leaders point of view

ret paladin-
_______________________________________________
2% dmg from all sources to everyone-thats 1
3% haste to everyone- thats 2
3%crit thats 3
blessing of might thats 4
mana battery thats 5
divine storm healing thats 6

ok so 6 buffs at the cost of our dps. not tht bad i suppose..
_______________________________________________
now lets see whats left after taking away the things that are too nerfed/broken to work now and that other classes will replace...
we are left with bringing;

2% dmg
3% haste

So as a raid leader you have 1 spot for a melee dps left, who do you bring, a rogue who can do three times as much SUSTAINED dmg as a ret paladin that doesnt need a healer pretty much dedicated to healing him through SoB in higher end raids has more survivabillity, never pulls aggro(aw shit i wanna pop wings cuz i got bloodlust and a haste pot chugged but i are pull teh aggroez if i doz) and now has one of the most useful skills for a MT or OT in all fights, but specifically fights with aggro resets... OR a ret paladin that does a third dps as a rogue and gives 2%cmg and 3% haste.... i think its pretty obvious that we all just lost our raid spot...

oh and btw the healing recieved from DS that was tacked on to make it look good is dumb and only slightly viable for pvp... Unless you are doing archimonde and poeple are saying "LOLZ i makked teh fawyer go around in a curclez and yew gawys are trapped nao LULZ you gunna bernnnn, there is no reason why a healer wouldnt have everyone topped off, between the use of healthstones and well.... there heals.

and as a side note; wow GG blizzards seriously, 2%dmg and 3% haste is our only stuff we have left?...when a class is so gimped that they only bring 2 mediocre buffs to a raid at the cost of doing a third the dps as a rogue or hell even all the other hybrids you know something is fucked up.

[Deleted]

Lets compare us to a rogue from a raid leaders point of view

ret paladin-
_______________________________________________
2% dmg from all sources to everyone-thats 1
3% haste to everyone- thats 2
3%crit
blessing of might
mana battery
_______________________________________________
now lets see whats left after taking away the things that are too nerfed/broken to work now and that other classes will replace...
we are left with bringing;

2% dmg
3% haste

So as a raid leader you have 1 spot for a melee dps left, who do you bring, a rogue who can do three times as much SUSTAINED dmg as a ret paladin that doesnt need a healer pretty much dedicated to healing him through SoB in higher end raids has more survivabillity, never pulls aggro(aw shit i wanna pop wings cuz i got bloodlust and a haste pot chugged but i are pull teh aggroez if i doz) and now has one of the most useful skills for a MT or OT in all fights, but specifically fights with aggro resets... OR a ret paladin that does a third dps as a rogue and gives 2%cmg and 3% haste.... i think its pretty obvious that we all just lost our raid spot...

and as a side note; wow GG blizzards seriously, 2%dmg and 3% haste is our only stuff we have left?...when a class is so gimped that they only bring 2 mediocre buffs to a raid at the cost of doing a third the dps as a rogue or hell even all the other hybrids you know something is fucked up.

Firstly, Rogues do not do 3x the DPS of an equally geared and skilled Ret Paladin. On KJ for example our Rogues will pull 3.1-3.4 DPS, I will pull 2.1-2.3, that is around 1k DPS difference. Now, if you add in JoW, a blessing, 2% dmg, 3% raid wide crit etc then you can see why a Paladin has a spot in the raid. I won't even go into the amount of slow people I've saved with a BoF.

Secondly, in Wrath all hybrids will feel the pinch but good players won't, I am pretty certain my spot isn't in jeopardy because I don't suck. Every guild has those players who carry the rest by never making mistakes, it doesn't matter what spec or class they play they will be in the raid. Only bad players should be scared of warming the bench.

[yamix]

Firstly, Rogues do not do 3x the DPS of an equally geared and skilled Ret Paladin. On KJ for example our Rogues will pull 3.1-3.4 DPS, I will pull 2.1-2.3, that is around 1k DPS difference. Now, if you add in JoW, a blessing, 2% dmg, 3% raid wide crit etc then you can see why a Paladin has a spot in the raid. I won't even go into the amount of slow people I've saved with a BoF.

Secondly, in Wrath all hybrids will feel the pinch but good players won't, I am pretty certain my spot isn't in jeopardy because I don't suck. Every guild has those players who carry the rest by never making mistakes, it doesn't matter what spec or class they play they will be in the raid. Only bad players should be scared of warming the bench.

You took the words out of my mouth.

[mariokartjoey]

Firstly, Rogues do not do 3x the DPS of an equally geared and skilled Ret Paladin. On KJ for example our Rogues will pull 3.1-3.4 DPS, I will pull 2.1-2.3, that is around 1k DPS difference. Now, if you add in JoW, a blessing, 2% dmg, 3% raid wide crit etc then you can see why a Paladin has a spot in the raid. I won't even go into the amount of slow people I've saved with a BoF.

Secondly, in Wrath all hybrids will feel the pinch but good players won't, I am pretty certain my spot isn't in jeopardy because I don't suck. Every guild has those players who carry the rest by never making mistakes, it doesn't matter what spec or class they play they will be in the raid. Only bad players should be scared of warming the bench.

and again, JotW is too nerfed to do anything right now, and 3% raid wide crits is something rogues are getting. Oh and our blessing of might is being replaced with battle shout, whats left, prot/holy has got kings... Assuming your raid has a prot paladin and holy paladin wich is almost always the case, you now have either salv or wis to pick, some classes even just salv cuz energy/rage... so we SOMETIMES have ONE blessing<-pathetic considering our blessings are supposed to be significant... And im not even going to argue about ret vs rogue dps. yea and 1k difference is when your getting some lucky SoB crits blowing all you CD's during bloodlust, meanwhile the rogue has been /sleeping for the past 10minutes

[Deleted]

No, it means I know how to play. To me you sound like someone who isn't really very good who got raid spots purely on his buffs and you're now worried for your spot, and you should be. These changes were made to keep bad players with good buffs out of the raid, it seems it's working.

[mariokartjoey]

i might believe the whole"keep bad players with good buffs out" saying if all the other classes had the same thing going on... I mean seriously lol a rogue has a better utillity buff than a class built around utillity, just saying that makes me wonder what crackwhore thought of that for blizz...

And unless you can come up with a post that means something with a valid statement then go away... I mean seriously when it gets to the point of you only being able to try and insult my skill when you never saw me play i know you are a bit immature and obviously have nothing to say that is relevant...

[Crispybacon]

you have no fucking idea how the game is judged you retard, there is no rule that said paladins cant be dps, yes we are a defensive hybrid, that just means we have more defensive capabilities compared with offensive ones like shamans have purge and we have dispel (even tho fucking blizz cant get that right either)

i really hate retards that say this shit when ALL three specs as paladins arent viable anyway, where we hell do you get the idea that we are meant to be tanks and healers when our tank and healing specs are just as bad, IF NOT WORSE then our DPS spec.

fucking retards have no idea about classes, we are divided into specs, not roles, learn2play... dont QQ just because you rolled rogue and have the best PVP DPS and CC in the game while Paladins have jackshit apart from three bad pvp and pve specs

OMG NERDRAGE AAAGGHHHHH

[Squeezadin]

I'ma just bullet some stuff down...

• It's still beta...
• Blue knows about our mana issue and will be fixed when its time for the Pally Review
• Blue's focus is to get people to see the content... Hence the raid buff/debuff stacking changes and the option to do any WotLK raid with a 10man or 25man (Paradigm Shift I think its called)

So all in all, good changes so far, imo... And more changes to come.