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  1. #21

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    @Lysiander: Druids mechanics? I have a pretty good idea about their mechanics, considering they have ALL of them not to mention I have quite a few 70's. psst including a druid. Umm, i don't know about your raid leaders but mine tend to have one feral per melee DPS group.

    @Seyelence: Uh, wanna tell me why druids need a bestial wrath? They already the hardest class to CC. As for weapon throw '30 yd range, 0.5 sec cast, 20 sec cooldown' Hmm doing AP Damage once every 20 secs... wow seriously OP. Now if it speared the enemy and you ripped him towards you and brought him into melee range, yeah thats OP. Even if there was a snare it'd be OP. But unless they make it castable while moving, id still rather spend that .5 sec closing distance so i can use my real damage abilities.
    Theres only 2 times I would use the weap throw ability, 1: I'm rooted, in which case theres nothing else i CAN do, and 2: You are fleeing so low in life it'll kill you. In which case you should've made the decision to disengage me to heal earlier. The ONE thing you are sort of right about is about warriors being good in pvp hence why buffs. Unfortunately warriors are only good in pvp WITH a pocket healer. As a feral druid, if you cant 1v1 and beat an equally geared warrior 10 out of 10 times, you are doing something wrong, seriously wrong.

  2. #22

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    The bestial wrath part of the equation is definitely a pvp thing for feral druids, and much, much needed. With less mana for shapeshifting to close distance on their target come WotLK, we needed some tools (actually we were already incredibly hurting in arena). So we got a tiny little snare that hopes to help compensate for the range bug, and an enraged state in which we can not be feared by hunters, priests, locks and stuff once every 3 mins or so. We needed that seriously.

    For PvE we needed an oh shit button, and we got a last stand type ability. For PvE dps we needed to scale better and an adrenaline rush type thing helps on that end (though probably not as much as the changes to OoC, Savage Roar, KotJ).

    And by the way, WoW isn't balanced around 1v1. And just because a feral has a very strong chance against an equal geared warrior doesn't mean ferals are overpowered. Fail.

  3. #23
    Warchief Knight Gil's Avatar
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    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    If you say that out of your own experiences, you are a VERY bad warrior. VERY bad.
    You obviously never played a warrior.

    The ONLY purpose for this skill is to overbuff warriors even more in pvp, weapon throw, now a heal, what the heck more? They don't need any of these two, nor they need them for pve.

    WoW kalganized.
    We need.
    And is it really needed to blame Kalgan because of every little buff? Because every buff we get, people blame Kalgan, like if he was some kind of egoistic WoW-addicted who cared more about his character than the balance of the game he is developing. That's not really mature.

    The bestial wrath part of the equation is definitely a pvp thing for feral druids, and much, much needed. With less mana for shapeshifting to close distance on their target come WotLK, we needed some tools (actually we were already incredibly hurting in arena). So we got a tiny little snare that hopes to help compensate for the range bug, and an enraged state in which we can not be feared by hunters, priests, locks and stuff once every 3 mins or so. We needed that seriously.
    So we do. Because being snared / rooted 90% of the fight while dealing no damage is not fun. We have absolutely no chance against a decent frost mage. This weapon throw is going to help us a lot. So as Enraged Regeneration. Because we are probably the only class who needs a healer behind us to do well in PvP. Because we are probably one of the classes with the biggest downtime in grinding.

    And we need also weapon throw because tanking is extremely boring, and this will make it more fun and easy. Same goes for enraged regeneration. You guys complain there aren't enough tanks? Too bad.

    And by the way, WoW isn't balanced around 1v1.
    99% of the time it's always the most powerful classes who say this

  4. #24

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Unless I missed something, it can't really be used for tanking because you would either have to be full arms or have enrage from fury, well ofcourse normal 5 mans and maybe heroics but aside from that, nothing really. But if prot got some sort of enrage effect I missed, please say so So it will only be a pvp ability, and yes ofcourse warriors have high armor when pvp'ing but due to zerk stance they take 10% extra damage from spell's and some of the armor mitigation is countered by these 10% extra damage aswell. I think it is an attempt to give warrior's some oh shit abilities useable in pvp, along with shield wall.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Eilt's Avatar
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    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    I love reading posts by people who have no idea how druids work, and the guy that said he had a bunch of lvl 70s including a druid, do you think that makes you know how to play the class? Well I level a character so OBVIOUSLY I know all about it. Nice logic there.


  6. #26

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebug
    I am not annoyed at the fact that they get Enraged Regeneration.  Only at the fact that the druid version costs 6.7 times as much rage!  For the same benefit.  Ok so warriors have to "lose" 15% (or 10% depending on if prot) Damage for 10 seconds.  But if you consider it, with a 3 minute cooldown and 10 second duration we are talking about them losing 1/18th of 15% bonus damage, or less then 1% damage in an extended fight or raid situation.  Or zero, if you look at it as a soloing tool as they can pop it out of combat on the way to the next mob anyway!
    Warriors are crit immune for pve so forget about enraged regen, while druids can still use frenzied regen. when talking about pvp, u have hots and u dont need to specc for that.
    "There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."
    - William Wallace

  7. #27

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    I would hardly say it's a useless talent in PvE
    Think about warlocks right now getting strung along to almost everything despite the fact mages can compete on DPS they would rather bring a warlock because of nether protection which means alot less hassle for healers.

    When a boss is capable of doing mass AoE damage, and you can help yourself back up and you releive some of the pressure on healers, that makes you a bit of a safer option to bring.

    Although i'm not disputing it is very much a PvE oriented nerf, it's not the end of the universe like you're making it out to be

  8. #28

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kromask-EU
    Unless I missed something, it can't really be used for tanking because you would either have to be full arms or have enrage from fury, well ofcourse normal 5 mans and maybe heroics but aside from that, nothing really. But if prot got some sort of enrage effect I missed, please say so So it will only be a pvp ability, and yes ofcourse warriors have high armor when pvp'ing but due to zerk stance they take 10% extra damage from spell's and some of the armor mitigation is countered by these 10% extra damage aswell. I think it is an attempt to give warrior's some oh shit abilities useable in pvp, along with shield wall.
    the new imp def stance gives an enrage on block, parry, or dodge
    Quote Originally Posted by Separate
    Ive said it before in a thread and ill say it again. I fucking hate roast beef but i dont go into an Arby's every day and say "FUCK ROAST BEEF"
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamless
    Heh, ahh the internet. Where the 'glass is half full' and 'glass is half empty' people are both shouted down by the heaving masses of "WAAAAH! I WANT A FULL GLASS! WAAAAAAAH!'

  9. #29

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Ok, so the OP is complaining about warriors getting an ability that druids have at lvl 36 ... and complaining because warrior's version is a bit better.

    So lets give feral druid whirlwind, that warriors get at level 36, and just make it cost less rage ... oh sorry, druids has already something like that ... oh ... mhhh, sorry no idea of something to give to a druid ... perhaps they already have everything.

    Stop QQing, or switch to another classes ... and most of all, QQing about PvE balance is ridiculous because not only classes would be soon balanced, but bosses and event too, so that they requires your presence, litlle feral ...

    Warlock POV of your issue ...

  10. #30

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Gil

    So we do. Because being snared / rooted 90% of the fight while dealing no damage is not fun. We have absolutely no chance against a decent frost mage. This weapon throw is going to help us a lot. So as Enraged Regeneration. Because we are probably the only class who needs a healer behind us to do well in PvP.

    99% of the time it's always the most powerful classes who say this
    Wow, a warrior complaining about pvp? Hmm, why is it that you guys are so well represented in every single bracket of arena again? Hmm, which bracket are feral druids represented well in again? Hmm...

    Btw- 75% of all statistics are made up.

    So as a feral druid I'm pretty damn good against physical dps classes. I do ok against casters depending on their spec. I have a really tough time against healers unless I outgear them (then so does everyone though). I'm not really seeing where I'm "the most powerful class". Again, I'll say to clarify- Me being able to wipe the floor with you does not make me OP.

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire Eilt's Avatar
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    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Bullshifter, you have obviously forgotten that ALL druids are resto, silly tauren :P

  12. #32

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Oops you got me Eilt

  13. #33
    Koumaru
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    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimsonak
    I would hardly say it's a useless talent in PvE
    Think about warlocks right now getting strung along to almost everything despite the fact mages can compete on DPS they would rather bring a warlock because of nether protection which means alot less hassle for healers.
    Most raiding locks don't even spec Nether Protection. They get raid spots because they dominate the mages on dps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trianiel
    So lets give feral druid whirlwind, that warriors get at level 36, and just make it cost less rage ... oh sorry, druids has already something like that ... oh ... mhhh, sorry no idea of something to give to a druid ... perhaps they already have everything.
    Really? Let me find my Feral Whirlwind button...

    Still looking...

    Oh, you were talking about Barkskin->Hurricane (presently on a cooldown)? Sorry, I forgot to spec 61/61/61 so I could "have everything."

    Okay, fixed that and specced 61/61/61, so could you kindly direct me to the armor with STR/AGI/STA/INT/SPI/Spellpower and enhanced armor on it all in large amounts?

  14. #34
    Warchief Knight Gil's Avatar
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    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Wow, a warrior complaining about pvp?
    That isn't very constructive. I guess you might want to explain why is that such a surprise. And yes I am. And if you ever played a warrior you would know why. Without healers, we are nothing. No other class has such a necessity to rely on a healer like us. We, warriors, are only well represented in arenas because of druids like you.
    Same thing goes for you: A druid complaining about PvP and that you need buffs? I already played with a resto druid, and also with a holy pala and with a resto shaman in a 2v2. Among these combos, resto druid was extremely easier compared with holy pala / resto shaman, and their gear difference wasn't that large.

    I'm not saying that druids don't deserve a buff, I recognise that they have their issues, It's just some people here who are saying that we don't deserve some refreshing abilities like if we were the most overpowered class in WoW. And lets face it: Every class is getting cool new skills in WOTLK. Why shouldn't us?


    Bullshifter, you have obviously forgotten that ALL druids are resto, silly tauren
    So, druids only do well in arena if specced resto? Same goes for warriors: We need to spec Arms, or we are nothing. Warlocks have to spec SL/SL. Mages have to spec frost. Hunters have to spec MM. Rogues have to spec subtlety. Etc etc. Fair deal, huh?

  15. #35

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Gil
    So, druids only do well in arena if specced resto? Same goes for warriors: We need to spec Arms, or we are nothing. Warlocks have to spec SL/SL. Mages have to spec frost. Hunters have to spec MM. Rogues have to spec subtlety. Etc etc. Fair deal, huh?
    Thing is SL/SL, arms, frost etc. are kinda pvp specs. Resto is also a very viable PVE spec for druids, and everything that gets nerfed because of arena, will affect us in raids. If MS debuff or soullink were to get a nerf, it wouldn't affect fury warrs and raidlocks in the same way as if druid hots were nerfed (lifebloom).

  16. #36

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    And here's my point- druid is 3 distinct classes. You respec arms, and you're still a warrior with a couple different abilities that make you viable.

    You might as well say I "You want to pvp? You should reroll rogue". Feral is the spec I play, and there are pve and pvp versions of feral spec which require respeccing back and forth between to optimize for pvp and pve. I also have to grind an entirely new set of gear to be effective in a different role. Yes I know that you have some differences in your gear, but you could "get away" with using another spec's gear and still be "reasonably" effective in your pvp spec. I can't just go resto with my feral pvp gear and expect to keep anyone alive much less myself.

    And who cares about 1v1? I mean really? Who arenas in anything other than 2v2 without a healer? There are very few situations where you'll truly find yourself a healer. It doesn't really matter whether I have a healer with me or not, my class (feral druid) still sucks for arena.

    I've never said you guys shouldn't get shiny new buttons for WotLK- but we should as well...Right?

  17. #37

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    And here's my point- druid is 3 distinct classes. You respec arms, and you're still a warrior with a couple different abilities that make you viable.
    there's a reason they're buffing fury and prot PvP.


  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire Eilt's Avatar
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    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Gil
    So, druids only do well in arena if specced resto? Same goes for warriors: We need to spec Arms, or we are nothing. Warlocks have to spec SL/SL. Mages have to spec frost. Hunters have to spec MM. Rogues have to spec subtlety. Etc etc. Fair deal, huh?
    This is my FAVORITE argument because it is so wrong it shows your ignorance on the matter. As someone stated we are 3 entire DIFFERENT roles. We have a melee DPS/Tank, caster DPS, and a healer. Anyone of these specs should be viable as they are completely different. There are fire mages in PvP, there are arcane mages as well, there are even afflic locks in PvP, and BM hunters, and just about every other class is viable in at least one of the arena brackets. Do I expect tanks in PvP? No, but a DPS spec should at least be viable like all the other classes.

    At this point feral arena is a joke. Comparing actual hybrids would be the best analogy, look at shaman, another hybrid class with 3 distinct specs. They are viable for PvP in ALL 3, while druids are forced into resto or some sort of resto/balance spec.

  19. #39

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    The funny thing is, I DONT EVEN LIKE the change from enraged assault. I liked the attack better! But the fact that a druid is complaining[edit: trolling] about another class getting something they have is ridiculous. Fact: druids take abilities/mechanics from at least 2 other classes and complain they are not as good as the originals. Heres an idea BE ORIGINAL! Go go balance druids!!

    And just to prove a point:
    Seal Fate- tier 6: 5 pts => Primal Fury - tier 4: 2pts
    Adrenaline Rush - tier 7: 1 pt => Berserk tier 11: 1pt and BETTER B.Wrath effect
    Old Thistle tea 60 5min CD => King of the Jungle - tier 9: 3 pts 30sec CD BETTER 6s Damage buff
    Master of Deception tier 1: 5 pts => Feral Instinct tier 2: 3 pts
    Camouflage tier 2: 5pts => Feral Swiftness tier 3: 2pts BETTER all around speed basically also [Fleet Footed Tier 5: 2pts]


    Not to mention most of these same Feral Talents also give pretty nice bonuses in Bear form. And its not as though you can do both at once, but you CAN do EITHER and have the option with the same talent, mostly looking at Berserk. So until warriors can break movement impairing effects and polymorph by changing stances, can stack Bloodthirst heals on self and others [Imp LotP], throw out a complete CC and a root on command dont complain. pick better battles. Like if any of the above things came true.

    Oh and yes im WELL aware you cant do all this from kitty form. Maybe, JUST maybe whats best for the raid/team is for you to UTILIZE your crazy array of tricks rather than mashing your face on the mangle/shred hotkeys. What a finishing note, I'm out!

  20. #40

    Re: Enraged Regen vs Frenzied Regen

    Cat druids are very gimp beyond, say, Kara. I rock Kara hardcore on the damage meters if everyone's Kara- and badge-geared on my cat druid, but passing beyond that point you'll run into scaling issues. Bear has a simmilar problem- you get armor capped early and you run out of ways to passively reduce damage taken. Your mitigation becomes reliant on absurd "spike" mitigation from dodge, and you basically stop scaling with encounters (at least compared to something far more linear, like a warrior or paladin tank).

    My main concern is that we don't have a Shield Wall effect like a Warrior or Protadin and- indeed- hardly any direct methods of reducing incoming damage. Shield Block is getting buffed considerably- a block will absorb a good deal more damage than it does in Wrath- while bears basically have to get their debuffs on the target and then just duck their head down, work on threat, and hope the damage doesn't start coming in too hard. Spell Reflect and Divine Protection (which DOES have rare tanking implications- ever swallowed a Pyroblast on Kael'thas in heroic MGT on a Druid? They scraped you off the walls, didn't they?) are delicious. Cats scale awful, as I noted. 40% AP roar isn't a solution, it just shows you how huge the problem is that blues keep making the number higher as they do their tests. In PvE half the tricks people mention are useless, although I'll acknowledge indoor Entangling Roots is a huge buff to feral DPSers in PUG'd five mans, especially since we also have hibernate to bring to the table.

    Those are all our problems... and you want to moan about Enraged Regen, an ability which, frankly, Warriors ought to have had two years ago? O_o


    ...learn to pick your battles. Seriously...
    That's just between you, me, and my pal Captain Winky.

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