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  1. #1

    Death of the priest?

    I feel like Blizz is killing off the priest. Why you ask? read on...

    A bit about me:
    I've been a priest since almost the dawn of Warcraft. While I'm more of a casual raider I've got a lot of raid experience (everywhere except Sunwell) and a fair amount of experience raid leading. I've got 2.3k heals unbuffed and about 1300 spell damage unbuffed. While I've leveled a pally tank to help out when needed, 90 percent of my time is spent on my priest (and I love my priest). I'm not an expert and I know there are a lot of people with more experience then me out there but I think I can safely say that I know my class. I’m hoping someone can tell me that I’m dead wrong and that contrary to my current belief Blizz doesn’t have an absolute hatred for priests.

    (I love healing and I love being a shadow priest).

    Yesterday, I read that Blizz stated:
    We're still in talks about how to consolidate buffs/debuffs between classes. Making VT raidwide is a possibility, but yes it would mean the value of multiple Shadow Priests in a raid is somewhat diminished. In a lot of ways we're okay with that (you shouldn't *have* to have multiple specs of one class in a raid), but there are a lot of other side effects we're not sure about right now. (Source)

    Hearing that and all the other changes to priests and other classes I now have a huge problem:
    What instance can you do in WOW with only one of a certain class? There are certain class that you generally need more than one mage, hunter and lock for 25 mans. Druids and Shammies bring a lot of extra “goodies” to a raid –sure you don’t absolutely need them but they bring a lot of positives.

    Even in 5 man instances:

    -Mages have the mighty sheep, do a lot of dps and aoe
    -Locks can seduce, banish, their pet can tank a tiny bit (lol), curse of elements increases all caster damage, they have a lot of dps and aoe
    -Pallys can tank, heal and output a lot of damage with the right gear and with crusader increase the raid crit by 3 percent
    -Druids can heal, tank, dps - and they do all three very nicely - not to forget their inervate and battle rez
    -Hunters can trap, dps, misdirect, kite
    and the list goes on...

    I know the above is generic, but I don’t want to go on about it all day long.

    Now lets take the humble priest:

    -Holy priest: These have been the backbone of the healing world - we neither excel nor do we have any big weaknesses. Pally have better flash heals and less mana issues, druids have the best heals over time, shammies can be incredible raid healers. Come the new patch though, pallies have group heals and (while I’m not sure about this) their greater heal seems to pack more of a punch than the priest greater heal. Depending on how Coh and a few other changes that may result from the Beta - the utility of a holy priest seems to come into question as all healing groups will continue to excel at a particular aspect of healing (except for priest) but now also have the full range of healing options (ie: group heals from pallies – arg ).

    -Shadow priest: In BC Shadow priest haven’t scaled very well in tier 6 content. While Blizz seems to be buffing up their damage in the new expansion, they are also reducing the usefulness of shadow priests. Why do Shadow priests get invited to raids? I’m pretty sure that its not for their damage. It’s because of the 5% extra spell damage to casters, the extra 10% to locks, the limited healing they do for party members and the mana regen.

    A fair number of classes will now have mana regen abilities –thus eliminating a big reason for having a shadow priest (this will of course depend on how the mana burn rates in instances but I’d be surprised if everyone started to run out of mana a lot faster than they do now). Blizz talks about shadow priest giving mana regen for the whole raid. Hmmm…. If they decide to allow that I guarantee that the mana regen rate will be even lower –which have a negative carry over affect for 5 and 10 man instances for shadow priests.

    In fact, for 5 man instances shadow priests have always had a bit of a hard time getting into groups. Why bring a shadow priest to a 5 man when you can get another mage for an extra CC and Aoe? Add to that the SP do more damage on targets that take time to kill (ie: generally not trash mobs) and the utility of SPs in 5 mans takes a big dive.

    For the spell damage that Shadow priests do… Sure Blizz has buffed this up a bit – but will it scale? I can’t really see us doing more damage that a lock in similar gear (assuming both know how to play) (or if we do I think Blizz will happily nerf us).

    So Shadow priests will in WotLK will basically be able to output a bit more damage (youpee), mana regen won’t be as big a factor because either we won’t be able to regen that much mana or because of other classes that will that will be able to regen and give 5% more damage to spell casters.

    Hmmm….when putting a raid together do I really want more than one shadow priest? Do I even need a shadow priest? Why not fill out the spot with another mage, shammy, lock, hunter? Hopefully I’m completely wrong but it almost seems like asking if I want to bring a knife to a gun fight.


    I love playing my priest as both holy and shadow. But would someone explain to me how Blizz is satisfied with the way priests work? Ok, I don’t know anything about instances or their mechanics in WotLK but it does seem a bit like Blizz hates priests.

    I guess the only positive thing I see for priests in that the discipline spec seems to be a lot more useful for PVE and PVP.

  2. #2

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Well put together thoughts. I agree that blizz needs to do something about these issues.Thank you for making this post.

  3. #3

    Re: Death of the priest?

    theres still lots of time before wotlk comes. and as no lvl 80 content was tested so far, not even mentioning raids, it will all change. if blizz sees that priests dont do well enough theyll buff them. so far we can only wait and see what beta testing priests say about it
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  4. #4

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Holy priests make the second best MT healer (behind paladins). They make the second best raid healer (behind shamans). They have better quick healers than either of these classes (PW:S, a HoT, PoM). They have more versatile heals than either of these classes (binding heal, prayer of healing, lightwell, circle of healing).

    Every 25 man raid will want at least 1 disc priest for the divine spirit and grace, and power infusion, pain suppression and reasonable healing abilities are never disliked.

    Just because more classes can provide mana regen than just shadowpriests doesn't suddenly mean people will take a ret pally, or a survival hunter, or whatever, to a raid instead of a SP. As far as we know right now, mana issues at 80 raid content will require multiple classes that regen mana for the whole raid. Furthermore, the shadow tree looks to be getting some great changes (-threat on shadowform, pushback resistance, less return damage from SW, never-ending SW:P + extra damage talent for it), and while it seems at the moment like shadow weaving isn't going to be as useful as in TBC (fire locks ftw?), misery still owns.

    In PvP, disc priests are amazing. In PvP, holy priests are nothing to sneeze at. In PvP, shadow priests have their niches. None of these things appear to be changing for the worse in Wrath.


    What is the problem, here? I am very, very excited to play my priest, both in PvE and PvP, with every spec.

  5. #5

    Re: Death of the priest?

    i cant imagine any raid now w/o guardian spirit on mt
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  6. #6

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Ive been keeping up with all changes in WotLK concerning nearly every class, and i cant say im too distressed about the status of priests in a raiding enviroment.

    Blizz also stated they didnt want to have an instance defined by bringing one class (an idea which i support), and this unfortunately means, stuff will get more "standardised".

    Multiple classes gain raid mp/5 returns, thats true, but only the shadow priest will give a steady supply in this.

    Disc priests will give your tank a 10% damage reduction and a 10% healing increase, which is beyond awesome. Besides the obvious SPI buff, we also gain the ability to give mana regen to the raid with healing, which should be semi-stable in a raid situation.

    Holy priests have always been, and will always be the most effective healer in game. While we arent the best in AoE, single target nor HoT healing, we are the runner up in all of these making us the best "general" healer. Priests can fill any healer spot, but the others cant always fill a priest spot.

    Priest are fine

  7. #7

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Why does every class assume WoTLK is going to be the death of their class? I've seen this about every class so far. IT'S GOING TO BE OKAY PEOPLE! BREATHE DEEP!!

    Unless they give DKs healing spells (not talking about damage = healing), priests will be ok. If they do then there will be servers with nothing but DKs. 25 man DK raids...o the humanity...won't somebody please think of the children?!

  8. #8

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Veine
    While we arent the best in AoE
    Take that back.

    Chain heal doesn't quite count as an AoE heal. Tranquility doesn't either. Neither does a pally using the right inscriptions on his holy light.

    But prayer of healing, circle of healing, holy nova to an extent, all do. If chain heal counts as an AoE heal, then don't forget that priests have PoM and lightwell as "AoE" heals, also.

  9. #9

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzweidrei
    Chain heal doesn't quite count as an AoE heal.
    What would you classify chain heal as then? It does effect people within an area of effect imo.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Darkjounin's Avatar
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    Re: Death of the priest?

    Well warriors haven't seen any changes yet.. Rly.

    Chain heal is NOT AoE.

    Like this, your raid gets into 1 spot, you cast chain heal, do they all get healed? No, they don't. It does NOT affect an area, it affects 3 persons close to each other.
    Hoiy kille ignata skee!

  11. #11

    Re: Death of the priest?

    As about shadows I think I read somewhere that the actual vampiric touch in beta is even nerfed a little too imba meaning the shadow is putting out so much damage that he won't go oom.

  12. #12

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Júxtapose
    What would you classify chain heal as then? It does effect people within an area of effect imo.
    Chain lightning affects multiple targets within an area also, but no one calls that an AoE... because it's not!

  13. #13
    Nogi
    Guest

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzweidrei
    Holy priests make the second best MT healer (behind paladins). They make the second best raid healer (behind shamans). They have better quick healers than either of these classes (PW:S, a HoT, PoM). They have more versatile heals than either of these classes (binding heal, prayer of healing, lightwell, circle of healing).

    Every 25 man raid will want at least 1 disc priest for the divine spirit and grace, and power infusion, pain suppression and reasonable healing abilities are never disliked.

    Just because more classes can provide mana regen than just shadowpriests doesn't suddenly mean people will take a ret pally, or a survival hunter, or whatever, to a raid instead of a SP. As far as we know right now, mana issues at 80 raid content will require multiple classes that regen mana for the whole raid. Furthermore, the shadow tree looks to be getting some great changes (-threat on shadowform, pushback resistance, less return damage from SW, never-ending SW:P + extra damage talent for it), and while it seems at the moment like shadow weaving isn't going to be as useful as in TBC (fire locks ftw?), misery still owns.

    In PvP, disc priests are amazing. In PvP, holy priests are nothing to sneeze at. In PvP, shadow priests have their niches. None of these things appear to be changing for the worse in Wrath.


    What is the problem, here? I am very, very excited to play my priest, both in PvE and PvP, with every spec.
    Check the new shamans talent tree and the druids new heals, and tell me - do you really think that a holy priest is needed.
    I'm sorry - i can't refer to the discipline priest in raid - don't use that and never have.
    The fact is that a shaman now can easly heal MT just as good as priests, and a druid now has more versatile healing. but lets chose now: priest shaman or druid - priests have no chance. No totems, No Blood Lust, No spirit that spawns and heals lowest hp target in raid when i heal with Healing wave or Lesser healing weave, no combat ress, this list can go on since: shamans, druids and paladins are not "pure" healing, and they assist the raid in a way thats not replaceable by a priest. TBC it was balanced - Priest had more powerfull healing and abilities then the other classes. But checking the talent trees - every healer will have the talents to be a "Priest" healer, while remaining a huge buffer to the raid.
    i don't think much on the 5 mans but mainly on the raids. to my veiw - blizz has "forgotten" certain classes, or certain specs (since discipline tree is pretty much amazing for a pvp priest). seeing other classes (especially shamans and druids) new spells and abilities made me expect a equal upgrade (they gave shamans, druids powerfull healing abilities, buff priests with a ability to buff the raid equally to the other classes).

    Paladins i think were buffed properly, increasing their ability of "burst heal" on a target. giving them a AoE heal that isn't that powerfull to my veiw and costs alot of mana (seems for me more of 5 man talent then sopmething that will be used in a 25m encounter). Removing Blessing of salvation is abit of a nerf (for paladins and raid), Yet still the paladins base heals were always lower then the priests and on wotlk paladins highest rank base heal is around 1k higher then the priests one. Also amazing glyph work on the paladins. was less impressed from the priests - seemed like a copy paste from another class, was expecting to see something like "when your CoH hits a target with a renew on it refreshes the duration of it" or maybe "your greaterheal leaves a HoT on the target that heals over 4 secs 5% of the amount healed", glyphs on the same level would have made me see that atleast the priest will remain the most powerfull healer (that doesn't buff the raid).

    about shadow priests - i really hope that the change won't be raid wide and stay party, shadowpriests rarely get spot for their dmg, trying to buff shadow priests damage is nice - the damage is increase he can return 2.5% mana but to the party. many classes got alot of mana return abilities which already places the shadowpriest as less usefull. i think that giving the touch to raid will be a nerf. though overall i think shadowpriest dmg has been buffed, also the tree became more friendly to a pvp use.

  14. #14

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Holy priests are needed in raids just as much as any other healing class imo. It's still the beta, dont overrate other classes too much just yet.

  15. #15

    Re: Death of the priest?

    From a mage's point of view, you'll always want at least 1 priest for Imp Divine Spirit in a raid, especially if casters come back to being more viable. And if the SP improves mana raidwide, then you'll want at least one (if not 2), SPs. Being an arcane mage recently, I would love 2 SPs in my raid regening mana.

    I think its better to keep most buffs within the group though (shaman, WE, SPriest), so that utility needs to be assigned. What they could do is make groups up to 7 slots or something.

  16. #16

    Re: Death of the priest?

    About CC:
    You got shackle undead.
    Before you say anything, remember that WotLK will come with MASSIVE undead trash all over every 5-man dungeons to 25-man raids.
    And in PvP, you can shackle ghouls summoned by DKs.
    So there.

    Oh, and I really must say this:
    Circle of healing is HAX

    It's so good, it should be trainable.

  17. #17

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Priests will have 3 people in every raid usually, which is more than most classes, seeing as there are 30 specs for 25 slots.
    They also said even post nerf VT mana will be just as good. As a shadow priest I'm excited for WotLK because I know I'm good and that I'll have a raid spot.

  18. #18

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuggle
    Priests will have 3 people in every raid usually, which is more than most classes, seeing as there are 30 specs for 25 slots.
    They also said even post nerf VT mana will be just as good. As a shadow priest I'm excited for WotLK because I know I'm good and that I'll have a raid spot.

    About VT. Top end shadowpriests with 1500+ spell damage right now turn out well over 2000 DPS in raid boss encounters. Right now, that means over 100 mana per second restored to a whole group.

    In wrath, the amount VT restores will be halved, but the DPS of shadowpriests is going to skyrocket from that 2k point.

    If this nerf were not put in, shadow priests in wrath would be dishing out something like 3000 DPS in first tier raid environments... restoring the equivalent of 750 mp5 to their whole group (or raid). That would just be plain stupid, given the scaling on mana costs that we've seen. Blizzard would have to put in mana draining aspects to every encounter just so that everyone didn't stay at 90% mana for a whole boss fight just because of the one shadowpriest that is hanging around.

  19. #19

    Re: Death of the priest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzweidrei

    About VT. Top end shadowpriests with 1500+ spell damage right now turn out well over 2000 DPS in raid boss encounters. Right now, that means over 100 mana per second restored to a whole group.
    are u serious, please post me something whatsoever proving that a shadowpriest reached "well over 2000 dps" in a raid boss encounter. Myself i have done MAXIMUM 1520 DPS during brutallus which is the most nuking fight in the whole game (and i outdpsed the other shadowpriests).

  20. #20

    Re: Death of the priest?

    All I saw was someone crying over spriests not beeing able to outdps warlocks, after that I stopped reading.

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