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  1. #41

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Basutai
    Negatory.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=14944.0


    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Shield Specialization now Increases the amount of damage absorbed by your shield by 10/20/30%. (Old - Increases your block value by 10/20/30%.)
    My prot friends cry...A tear shed for those lost....
    mr rodgers lolwut?
    But the recently updated talent calculator does still show the old itteration (the one currently online on the Beta realm). Blizzard confuses me sometimes.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  2. #42

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    *SUBMIT FOR FEEDBACK*

    Given the inability to try out the beta and how holy paladins fare with their current build I can't give feedback on the new abilities. But, since the spell pushback mechanics have changed so radically it has rendered Spiritual Focus and Improved Concentration Aura both pretty meaningless. Spiritual Focus is not definitely worth 5 talent points anymore and Improved Concentration Aura is only useful due to the shortened silence effects. As such, we get to spend 8 talent points in something that definitely is not worth that much.

    As such, I'd suggest rolling them into a single 5-point talent that reduces the duration of silence and interrupt effects and slightly improved resistance to spell pushback.
    - Hand: n., A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody's pocket. - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

  3. #43

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    A warning to whoemever will be posting the suggestions;

    IIRC the Beta EULA states that you may not share your Beta privileges with anyone. Posting a thread saying "Me and (these) people who are not in the Beta think that" may have consequences.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  4. #44

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko
    Could you possibly Flesh out this better and make bullet points of Concentration aura and spiritual focus, to highlight the problems with it and how it is behind the times?
    With the new spell pushback mechanics you can only be affected by 2 pushbacks before becoming immune. This causes issues with holy paladin talents becoming mostly useless:

    * Spiritual Focus: it decreases the chance of spell pushback taking effect. Previously this was an excellent talent. The more mobs you had on you and the faster they kept hitting you the more useful this talent was. You could not become immune to pushback.

    * Improved Concentration aura: also reduces the chance of spell pushback taking effect in addition to reducing the duration of silence and interrupt effects on you.

    The problem: Spiritual Focus and Improved Concentration Aura overlap each other, they provide the same effect. Spiritual Focus isn't worth 5 talent points now with the new mechanics and every holy paladin doing pvp will spec anyway into Improved Concentration Aura because of the silence duration reducement.

    Suggestion: remove Spiritual Focus altogether and make Improved Concentration Aura's pushback resistance effect slightly more effective. Not too much though since it's still an aura and affects your group and/or raid.
    - Hand: n., A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody's pocket. - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

  5. #45

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    Mana issues suck, only cause current change to JotW ... but my question is this, even with gear normalization, why does The set gear and PVP gear have a lack of int? It is not shared, and although they are building us as warriors, Our low mana pools means drains/burns are even more effective against us. Petition Teir gears to compensate for lack of int. Even if our mechanics allow us to regen alot of mana from damage, if we have 0 mana from the begining, how can we do said regen? Hunters, Priests, Warlocks will sap us in no time and render us useless before we can get an ability off. What good are mana potions usable in arenas? we get it 1 shotted with yet another tick!

    IMO Int on PVP/Teir gear is not that much to ask for. Enhance has it... Why can't we?

  6. #46

    Re: Blue Confirmation, to be fixed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenetus
    mana is easy, they'll fix it.
    DPS is trivial, they'll tune it.
    Are you talking about the same Blizzard we are?
    I am the interglow that lets you know to call your brother son.


  7. #47

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues

    wasnt there a glyph of exorcism that makes it also interrupt?

    i didnt understand if that would only work on undead/demons as well.

  8. #48

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Roah
    i didnt understand if that would only work on undead/demons as well.
    This question is covered in the 'Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions' thread, please read it.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  9. #49

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    After reading tons and tons of posts and threads, some of my ideas may be the same as others, but here is what I think about some of the talents/abilities...

    Currently
    Seal of Command - 14% Base Mana Instant Cast
    • Gives the Paladin a chance to deal [ 70% of mw ] to [ 70% of MW ] additional Holy damage. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 2 min.
    • Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing [ 36% of AP + 58% of Spell Power + 30% of mw ] to [ 36% of AP + 58% of Spell Power + 30% of MW ] Holy damage, [ 72% of AP + 116% of Spell Power + 60% of mw ] to [ 72% of AP + 116% of Spell Power + 60% of MW ] if the target is stunned or incapacitated.

    What I feel is currently wrong with SoComm is its double power on stunned targets. With this set up, Judging SoComm on a stunned target is like critting with a Judged SoComm on a non-stunned target. The main problem is that this can also crit doing nearly 4x times damage. So to keep in tune with the fact that they want to do double damage against stunned targets, I suggest this.

    Seal of Command - 14% Base Mana Instant Cast
    • Gives the Paladin a chance to deal [ 70% of mw ] to [ 70% of MW ] additional Holy damage. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 2 min.
    • Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing [36% of AP + 58% of Spell Power +30% of mw] to [36% of AP + 58% of Spell Power + 30% of MW] Holy Damage, with a 100% chance to crit with Judgement spells if the target is stunned or incapacitated.

    With this change, you still do the double damage as I think they intended and gives synergy with Vengeance procs.

    Currently
    Crusader Strike - 8% Base Mana, 5yd Range, Instant Cast, 6 sec Cooldown
    • An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage.

    Wow what a long description! ... This is a perfect spot to put in a spell interrupt.

    Crusader Strike - 8% Base Mana, 5yd Range, Instant Cast, 6 sec Cooldown
    • An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage.It also interrupts spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 2 sec.

    Woo that was hard to come up with! :
    Well those are the ideas I had which I see several other came up with but felt they were needed sometimes that which is most obvious can be overlooked.

    <insert obligated excerpt of giving JotW the old effect back for a self buff>

  10. #50

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeezadin

    Crusader Strike - 8% Base Mana, 5yd Range, Instant Cast, 6 sec Cooldown
    • An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage.It also interrupts spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 2 sec.
    We will never recieve a spell interupt on Crusader Strike. Why? Because all interupts in WotLK will cause 0 damage and be off the GCD. If we do get an interupt, it wont be here.

  11. #51

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    Once again, the paladin class is NOT a cc/interupt class. We are an anti-cc class. ask fro better anti-cc abilities if anything.
    Xphius 80 Paladin
    Xanxic 80 Druid
    Xzain 80 DeathKnight
    Karvex 80 Hunter

  12. #52

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    I don't think that the old JotW will ever be coming back because it scales with damage and ret paladin gear no longer has int so their mana pool never gets any larger. Ret paladins need an additional way to gain mana but it probably won't be any kind of scaling mechanism that can be exploited by wearing other gear. Sorry if this has been mentioned before but I had not seen anyone mention this.

  13. #53

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues

    Sheath of Light AND Beacon of Light!

  14. #54

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    why shamans got 4 shocks (all trainable) and we have just one????

    here's my suggestion:

    Sacred Shock: interrupt the enemy spellcast, preventing the casting of that school for 3 secs, must be used after a critical strike, lasts 10 secs. 6 sec CD

    so after you land a critical strike you have 10 seconds to use this spell and interrupt the cast, it isn't OP imo and it can fix most of retri PVP problems.... some sort of wind shock, BUT SACRED!!!! ;D ;D ;D

  15. #55
    cooms
    Guest

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordico
    why shamans got 4 shocks (all trainable) and we have just one????

    here's my suggestion:

    Sacred Shock: interrupt the enemy spellcast, preventing the casting of that school for 3 secs, must be used after a critical strike, lasts 10 secs. 6 sec CD

    so after you land a critical strike you have 10 seconds to use this spell and interrupt the cast, it isn't OP imo and it can fix most of retri PVP problems.... some sort of wind shock, BUT SACRED!!!! ;D ;D ;D
    that wouldn't be to op but i think the CD should be however long holy shock is (sorry not a pally). and it should have another use on a party/raid member like holy. maybe something like

    Sacred Shock: interrupt the enemy spellcast, preventing the casting of that school for 3 secs, must be used after a critical strike, lasts 10 secs. Or use on friendly target to make immune to any spell push back or interrupt effects for 6 seconds. CD ??

  16. #56

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    Paladins don't need a silence/interrupt.
    This user has been banned.

  17. #57
    cooms
    Guest

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    i honestly don't pally a pally but i can say that my mage destorys them but my warrior has a harder time if they have good s4 gear (in terms of pvp). i don't see pallys getting much help against spells other than bubble. i dunno that's just me.

  18. #58

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by cooms
    that wouldn't be to op but i think the CD should be however long holy shock is (sorry not a pally). and it should have another use on a party/raid member like holy. maybe something like

    Sacred Shock: interrupt the enemy spellcast, preventing the casting of that school for 3 secs, must be used after a critical strike, lasts 10 secs. Or use on friendly target to make immune to any spell push back or interrupt effects for 6 seconds. CD ??
    I like the idea of this being used on a friendly target to prevent silence and interrupt. Would be very useful as a new Hand ability, something like this;

    Hand of Conviction
    Rank 1
    Instantly shocks an enemy target with holy force, causing 14 to 17 Holy damage and interrupting spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 2 sec. When used on friendly targets, Hand of Conviction provides immunity to interrupt effects and gives spells a 60% chance to not lose casting time when the target takes damage. Lasts 6 seconds.

    Since Hand spells are all friendly buffs, maybe it should just be a shock though, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Varithorn1
    Paladins don't need a silence/interrupt.
    Many would disagree, considering paladins have very few tools to combat spell casters.
    - Renowned expert in the field of Paladinery -
    - & Author of -
    The Highly Acclaimed "Reinvention" Threads
    North Lordaeron - Stratholme
    - Angor Coast-

  19. #59

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    Well, you have a stun, incapacitate, bubble, heal, plate armor, strong damage, being anti kitable, high health, you can heal, and provide strong support. You can't have everything, honestly.
    This user has been banned.

  20. #60

    Re: Blue Confirmation, Paladin's to be Discussed; Mana, DPS and Interrupt issues.

    IMO,

    Judgement of Justice should also have an effect like Curse of tongues which makes them cast slower. we aleady have a stun and if Ret a "incapacitate" which interrupts. making them cast slower would give us the time to dish out more damage before they can get their big heals off.

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