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  1. #21

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    No skilled Rogue would ever CoS the Vengeance debuff, that would leave them totally open for Hammer of Justice.

    Seal of Vengeance and Concecration is enough to keep most Rogues at bay.
    QFT

  2. #22

    Re: Crusader strike change

    What if he vanishes while he has cloak on...?

  3. #23

    Re: Crusader strike change

    My paladin (62) crits for about 600. This would be a 300 mana return. With the cost of the attack its about 200 mana gain every use. This is enough to refresh command.

    If you are being more offenseive and judging at every chance like you most likely will due to JoW talent, then itll fuel both. Mhm, perhaps its a bit weak on the mana return, how about 100%?

    600 mana in my paladin's case - 500 mana every use, with aggressive judgments itd be about 400 mana. Sounds fair?
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  4. #24
    Dreadlord meliancill's Avatar
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    Re: Crusader strike change

    not realy. start counting concencration and DS and you are short even at 80 say you hit for 1500 on a cloth target

    and you gain lets say 50% that puts you at oh

    750 mana

    80 ds costs 650
    80 cs costs 275

    so right there you in the hole not counting judging healing or re-sealing or concencration. and thats hiting a clothie. as you can see having it on judgments is the only real way to give us the kind of mana regen we need.

  5. #25

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Quote Originally Posted by meliancill
    not realy. start counting concencration and DS and you are short even at 80 say you hit for 1500 on a cloth target

    and you gain lets say 50% that puts you at oh

    750 mana

    80 ds costs 650
    80 cs costs 275

    so right there you in the hole not counting judging healing or re-sealing or concencration. and thats hiting a clothie. as you can see having it on judgments is the only real way to give us the kind of mana regen we need.
    Count judgements of the wise in there (say, a little more buffed than it is now, but not the loltastic talent it used to be). Throw in procs from judgement of wisdom. Now throw in a mana return from crusader strike. Not even 50%, if that becomes too much. Let it be 30%, or 15%, or based on attack power. Shamanistic Paladanistic Rage, anyone?

    By God, we might be on to something for retnub balanced mana regen.
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  6. #26
    Dreadlord meliancill's Avatar
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    Re: Crusader strike change

    lol the reason that judgmens made up for the lack of mana is that they have threw tallents an extreamly high crit chance. meaning we gane a masive amount. normaly 1200+ mana every 8 seconds. that is more than enough to sustane a full rotation

    CS - DS - JUDGMENTS - CONCECTRATION and hell even a heal.

    that is what gave paladins our versatility in wrath. when they took away jotw and still didnt give intel on our gear it took that away. now i understand that they only did that to help them with the calculations and that it was only temperary. but still puting it on CS while yes it will give us some mana regen it is HIGHTLY dependant on the armor of the person you are fighting. while judgments are not.

  7. #27

    Re: Crusader strike change

    This is so dumb... please move the discussion from Cs restoring 50% of your mana omg...

    a BT geared pally can CS crit for 5k in pve regularly. I've had CS crits as high as 10 and 14k on certain fights...
    Thats too much mana! The new jotw is fine honestly...it won't be as effective for soloing, which sucks, but its just as good if not better for raiding...if 10 people regen .5% of their mana, and say each has about 10k mana (lvl 70 casters and healers) thats 5000 raid mana in 1 second. A ret pally at 70 in mostly gear without int will probably gain about 350.

    I am confused because the talent says they'll get .5% of they mana, per second. But how long will this increased mana regen last? just 1 second?

  8. #28

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Replenishment = .5% a second, for 12 seconds, of their total mana.

    Ret has a mana pool of about 5700ish unbuffed at 80 as there is no int on gear. 5700 x .005 = 28.5 a second back.


    The simplest solution is to have CS work with judgements better. As judgemnts are now only light and wisdom, JoW would be the "ret" judgement. Judgement procs have a 4 second cool down, so only 15 PPM. CS should have a 100% chance to proc judgements regardless of cooldown, and have a +XX% to the judgement effect. So (just an example) if a normal JoW proc'ed for 300 mana with CS it would proc for 475.


    edit: added a missing procs

  9. #29

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    a BT geared pally can CS crit for 5k in pve regularly. I've had CS crits as high as 10 and 14k on certain fights...
    i think you do count on RoS encounter?
    otherwise 3k CS is possible but even 4k-5k is doubtfull since im doing 4k white crits, wich is allready amazing, with full BT gear

  10. #30

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Quote Originally Posted by Moar Pew Pew
    Many people say they are ok with not having a secondary effect on Crusader Strike, but I personally think that having a 41 tier talent that simply instantly attacks is terribly underpowered. Literally every 41 point talent that gives a new attack spell is better. Hell, Arms Warriors get MS at 31, which deals more damage and has a debuff. We just need something besides instant damage.

    Just to be clear, I don't want MS. -_-

    I definitely agree with you.

    I think a spell interrupt for CS will be a great secondary affect. We dont need MS debuff, since we already have the insane burst. The problem we have most as ret is fighting casters. a spell interrupt will give us that edge.

  11. #31

    Re: Crusader strike change

    i dont think that an spell interrupt is a viable option 4 CS couse it is gonna be a retri only ability and should be available 2 all specs since it is on-demand 4 paladins.

    it would be better 2 have the spell interrupt or on the judgment effect of SoJustice (dealing no dmg & 100% hit chance whit a 10-20 sec cooldown) or on ShoR (again with 10-20sec CD) or in both.

    back 2 topic:

    i think CS could have a holy dmg + melee dmg coefficient like 4 example: deals 110% melee weapon damage as 50% holy damage + 50% physical damage of the damage caused.

    working like a transformed "executioner" 2 ignore many of the dmg mitigation on heavy armor classes.
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  12. #32

    Re: Crusader strike change

    People, PEOPLE!

    Just because Blizzard decided to remove an outdated secondary effect from an ability does not mean that that ability will never have a secondary effect again.


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  13. #33

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Quote Originally Posted by Val3rim
    i think you do count on RoS encounter?
    otherwise 3k CS is possible but even 4k-5k is doubtfull since im doing 4k white crits, wich is allready amazing, with full BT gear
    no....i've done 10k on ros...

  14. #34

    Re: Crusader strike change

    while we're QQing ....can i get hammer of wrath working off melee hit lol? if i had a nickel for every time a rogue got away at 1% because of that...

  15. #35

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    while we're QQing ....can i get hammer of wrath working off melee hit lol? if i had a nickel for every time a rogue got away at 1% because of that...
    A melee hit that's actually ranged and does spell damage? That makes so much sense
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  16. #36

    Re: Crusader strike change

    So you want rogues to be able to evasion out of hammer o wrath instead cloak of skilling their way out of hammer o wrath?

  17. #37

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Imo new secondary effect should go along the lines of...

    An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage and grants you with Righteous Wisdom, making the next damaging seal casted within 10 seconds return 50% of it's damage as mana to the Paladin.

    Coupled with the super nerfed JotW should come close to the 60% we had but less OP for PvP since we'd have to spend CS GCD to trigger the effect isntead.


  18. #38

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Quote Originally Posted by GT4
    A melee hit that's actually ranged and does spell damage? That makes so much sense
    see Arcane Shot. well not a melee ability but melee hit = range hit last time i checked
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  19. #39

    Re: Crusader strike change

    If they did implement a spell interrupt for crusader strike; I would think they would pump the cooldown back up to 10 seconds again to fall in line with most other spell interrupts which would suck .

  20. #40

    Re: Crusader strike change

    Basutai, I think you and I may have misread read Max. Maybe he meant he wants them to get Hammer of Wrath "on spell hit" rating and "off melee hit".

    If that's the case, I amend my comment: Max, if the rogue is running away he'll probably be cloaking out of Seal of Vengence/Judgment of Justice anyway, so a spell hit based Hammer of Wrath is likely to miss anyway.

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