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  1. #21

    Re: Prot gear change

    as a tank that raids endgame i personaly think int is a waste on and high lvl tank gear. We now have the change to sanc and that will help tremendously. Also, as long as you have enough manamana to toss your shield, judge, holy shield, HotR, and SoR you are gtg.

    Holy shield- 10%
    Judgement- 6%? (lol not sure and cant log in at work ;D)
    HotR - 6%
    SoR - 6%
    AvengersS- 26%
    Conc - 22%

    Total mana = 76%

    **that does not include**
    Benetiction - 3-15% less mana for judgements and seals
    Shield of the templar - 5-15% less mana for holy shield, avengersS, and SoR
    Guarded by the Light - 15-30% less mana for Conc, Holy Wrath, AvengersS


    Note: i probably am missing something, but i have been having no problems with mana so far in beta, 90% of the time im at close to full mana

  2. #22

    Re: Prot gear change

    also seals last 2 minutes and judgments don't remove them so you don't have to spam them

  3. #23

    Re: Prot gear change

    Quote Originally Posted by Basutai
    He means that, like when they changed +heals to +heals+.333dmg, they did it to EVERYTHING. He is not referring specifically to gear, or at least id hope to shit they arent giving mages str over spellpower.
    lolwut?

  4. #24

    Re: Prot gear change

    lolwut?

  5. #25

    Re: Prot gear change

    though I will admit: 2% of the maximum mana scales with int

  6. #26

    Re: Prot gear change

    Quote Originally Posted by Basutai
    The guy i quited was getting on berry's case saying that they wouldnt be changing the spell damage to spell power, and instead from spell damage to strength...however, berry was referring to all gear, paladin or otherwise, and the quoted dude was staying in his little paladin corner.

    lolwut?
    Your reading comprehension is broken sir, I never said such thing, "spell damage and healing power merging to spell power" is irreverent to prot paladins and their gear change, no we don't want them, we rather have those spent itemization point refund to STR.

  7. #27

    Re: Prot gear change

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenetus
    hunters DO need int.

    and so hunters and shaman get int -> AP



    though the funny part is shaman don't really need int, they just get int -> ap to share gear with hunters better.



    It's much better to look at the latest gear, blizz learned that tankadins don't need int and stopped giving it to us.
    Sir, another foolish point addressed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amgyn
    shamans do need int. potentially more than hunters. shocks, totems, shields (lighting), maelstrom weapon bringing isntant casts and heals. (and this is just enhancement shaman - the only class really comepeting with hunters)
    YES, while both shamans and hunters do want some int on their gear, they'll often compare to leather counter part to choose superior dps pieces.

    Because they don't "really" need int it does not provide anything other than mana pool

    Hunters do get talent to make int bit more useful so they won't turn their eyes on leather gear often as now..
    THIS CHANGE WAS MADE TO ENH SHAMANS AT THE SAME TIME in the WOTLK.

    This situation was more noticeable due to Sunwell loot table.





    So why am I talking about hunter/shaman gear in this thread?
    They are all going to rely on physical damage/stats that increase AP in order to scale their DPS/TPS because of that, while they do consume mana, it does not provide any other benefit than increasing mana pool.

    All other classes with mana bar benefits something else through either talent currently existing in live servers or through spell crit (although it's not noticable).

    Now I explained this again to some people, my point of this thread was that I'm worried how Blizzard is going to repeat same itemization mistake as hunter/shaman to spread itemization points on our gear to lower other "more important" stats and how that will affect us in future.

  8. #28

    Re: Prot gear change

    Quote Originally Posted by Basutai
    and I was saying that you were referring, pedantically, to only paladin gear, when in fact berry was, from what was read, referring to all gear for all classes. He was also saying that, based on the fact they can easily change such stats, and the fact that ENH shaman gear is being modified to fit the future, the likelihood is that ALL gear will be modified for all classes to fit the changes intro'd in the LK and its pre-release patches.

    And stam is the key talent for prot. in fights over 3 mobs, HP and touched by the lightbulb is better for threat.

    Thanks for clarification, you're right on those, but I don't think you would want only stam, it needs to be balanced with str imo.

  9. #29

    Re: Prot gear change

    Quote Originally Posted by Basutai
    Must....resist....side topic........cant.....
    fuck it...

    There was a recent discussion on that topic just recently, can't find the link but they found that, with the warrior tanking blues and such they had, they got more threat from their other attacks with a SP weap at the cost of a warrior one, but that, in fights of 3- mobs, holy cleavage was better.

    So they pretty much ended up choosing to have a weapon swap macro to switch to a warrior one right before cleaving, then back to sp for consec/Hshield/avengers/everything else...
    Yea, I see that also as there is no other suitable "threat" main hand weapon we could use pre-wotlk (aka ones with str/stam/avoidance), and Hammer of Righteous is the only skill that relys (?) on weapon damage, so swapping to high weapon damage would be best.

    Edit: i see you used beta example, but with wotlk generic plate tank weapon i see, i'm not sure if someone was actually testing extensively to get that result. As most of our skills will have coefficient split evenly with AP, i figured it's not efficient to go for raw spell power at that point when you can get some from stam and have str give AP/block value.

  10. #30

    Re: Prot gear change

    (aka ones with str/stam/avoidance)
    in other words prot warrior weapons?

    they fail for us. Prot warriors like very fast weapons for heroic strike.

    We like very slow weapons for HotR.

  11. #31

    Re: Prot gear change

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenetus
    in other words prot warrior weapons?

    they fail for us. Prot warriors like very fast weapons for heroic strike.

    We like very slow weapons for HotR.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the seal of corruption is going to be our main threat seal as well? Slow weapon speed won't benefit us much except for burst threat on our cleave, and it won't help us get 5 stack fast enough.

    Edit: I guess seal of matyr is the choice suitable for high damage tank weapon.

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire lumenos's Avatar
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    Re: Prot gear change

    As much as i would like to see our tiered gear re-itemized, i'm kind of doubting that will happen.

    While it's true our threat scales from ap AND spell power so it would be nice getting used to the new mechanics right away, I have a feeling that blizzard is going to think our current spell dmg gear on top of our 30% of stam spell power is going to be enough to ignore str and ap till we replace our gear. Which i'm afraid is going to suck horribly for those of us in sunwell gear. I really don't want to have worked so hard to get what i have only to have to replace it immediately in xpac because it's not itemized correctly.

    Concerning the mana and int issues. No need for it in xpac. All our skills cost a % of base mana instead of a set amount. Changes to Blessing of Sanctuary gives us 2% of max mana every time we block, parry, and dodge (incredible change imo). We get mana back from every heal. Multiple raid wide mana battery sources are available. All in all it sounds like mana will not be an issue, even if we have nothing but our base mana.

  13. #33

    Re: Prot gear change

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenion
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the seal of corruption is going to be our main threat seal as well? Slow weapon speed won't benefit us much except for burst threat on our cleave, and it won't help us get 5 stack fast enough.

    Edit: I guess seal of matyr is the choice suitable for high damage tank weapon.
    with HotR putting up charges you'll get a 5 stack fast enough

    Slow also maximizes parry haste and reckoning

  14. #34

    Re: Prot gear change

    im still leaning toward using a spelldamage weapon 90% of the time and only a "warrior" tank weapon for difficult bosses

  15. #35

    Re: Prot gear change

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenion
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the seal of corruption is going to be our main threat seal as well? Slow weapon speed won't benefit us much except for burst threat on our cleave, and it won't help us get 5 stack fast enough.

    Edit: I guess seal of matyr is the choice suitable for high damage tank weapon.
    it would take 5 extra seconds to get the five stack with a slower weapon, is that really an issue...

    but i think the point is if you are using a macro to weapon swap, you need to swap to a slow, high top end weapon, NOT a warrior tanking weapon

  16. #36

    Re: Prot gear change

    Current end game Warrior Tank weapons have some Defense Rating, then some other stat, either dodge, parry or hit, or some combination but never all 3. Also expertise.... (unless I'm missing one)

    With our current Tier gear, Badge gear, random drops etc... both Warrior or Paladin, we've only got 400 AP as paladin, 600 AP as warrior. Our Threat comes from imaginary w/e that we cause, from warriors it's their rotations and abilities and from paladins our 85 white damage and 130 yellow damage.....a warrior's shield slam crit is puny compared to the damage a lock throwing 7k Shadow Bolts. But it counts different in how much it pisses the mob off.

    What Wotlk is doing is changing the majority of our abilities from "My momma is better than your momma" jokes threat into "I just kicked you in the shins and scraped skin off." threat.

  17. #37

    Re: Prot gear change

    Well with the change to the existing sets, looks the change is here to stay. I'll eat my words till I get to test on the PTR or get a beta invite.

    Though I think that when they did the convert they dropped our iLVL some since we lost both int and Spelldmg and gained STR instead.

    Old T6 Set:
    Stam: 470
    Int: 132
    Spelldmg: 267

    New T6 Prot Set:
    Stam: 470
    Int: 0
    Str: 306

    Net Change:
    Stam: +/- 0
    Int -132
    Spell Dmg -267
    Str + 306.

    New gear questions for number crunching:

    1) What lvl of expertise should we target or is still a junk stat for Prot Pally?
    2) What lvl of +hit should we target, and did they change our abilities to be physical hit or are the majority still spell hit based (yes I know there is only +hit now and it effects both, but the coefficients are different if I recall correctly)>
    3) For 3.0 on realms @ 70 it's looking like the Rising Tide from Najentus (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=32236 ) or maybe even Syphon of Nathrezim off Supremus might be a good one for us ( http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=32262 ) even though it has no stam or other mitigation. Unless one is lucky enough to get a Murumasa out of Sunwell (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=34214) or have high arena rating to pickup one of the glads weapons.

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