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  1. #41

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaurloots
    Pretty sure that Blizz said there will be around 10% DPS difference between pure dps classes and the others. So Rogue, Hunter, Mage, Lock will be top, followed by the rest. Assuming gear, player skill, and the fight are all equal. Reality is that any of them can be on top. Gear between players is almost never equal. Same goes for skill, and different fights will give certain classes an advantage. Overall I dont think it will really matter.. Know your class, spec, stats, and the fights and you can top the DPS charts no matter what class you are.
    No. The exact verbage was "a couple hundred dps". Assuming your average raid dps will be ~4k for starter raids thats aprox 5% not 10% dps.

    While that dps chart is a nice benchmark There are a lot of details we do not know about it. Furthermore it doesnt speak to gear levels or of course player skill.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  2. #42

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    lol 5k dps for the lock, 4k for rogue and mage. There is a big difference. Ah and lol at the ret and dk dps. :P

  3. #43

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quoting from a blue post

    Ret should be as close to the top as anyone else [...] For almost all of us, it's going to be impossible to tell whether the rogue doing 2500 dps and the paladin doing 2300 dps is because of the class or the player. And it is likely to be a different number on the very next boss.

  4. #44

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Honestly, numbers dont mean much when we dont konw what kind of gear the players had...


    Edit: Hell, a couple hundred DPS is even better. I have a Ret pally and Combat Sword Rogue right now. Would love to do some raiding with my Pally, but its tough to get into them on live.

  5. #45

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Munk u seem to love paladin and ret spec :P

  6. #46

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    1. feral druid cat
    2. feral druid bear
    3. moonkin druid
    4. restokin druid
    5. resto druid
    6. rest of classses

  7. #47

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quote Originally Posted by jangkun
    Munk u seem to love paladin and ret spec :P
    Yes I do, after 17 months of nothing but being the World of Warcrafts bitch I do enjoy getting to do a little dmg myself. More info about it is located in the link.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  8. #48

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    1) DPS specced/ geared players.
    2) Tank specced/ geared players.
    3) Healing specced/ geared players.
    4) People not specializing properly.
    5) Unskilled players.

  9. #49

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    LOL you are all just throwing numbers around without having any idea what you're talking about.

    Equal dps when speced for dps means in a raid environment (and raid speced), not pvp. The fact that druids, shamans, priests and paladins can heal is not a utility that should by any means lower their dps in a raid, nor will it be used as a justification for tuning them below "pure dps" classes, in fact the idea that a "hybrid" should not be able to do "pure" quality dps because they can heal is retarded. You just misunderstand that the supposed pure classes possess a different and often more useful type of utility. Which is more useful in a raid, the fact that a Balance druid can shift out and heal himself, or the fact that a rogue/hunter has a utility to boost the tank's threat? Which one is used more often? Both "pure" and "hybrid" classes bring substantial buffs to the table as well, you cannot use those as a reason to gimp anyone's dps anymore. Now, within a given spec, there may be room for "pure dps" vs. "hybrid/utility" builds based on specific talent choices, but that does not mean that hybrids are automatically pigeonholed into being the buff bitch.

    The point is that all classes are being engineered to have very, very close to equal potential. You will never see exactly equal DPS from all classes because each fight favors the mechanics of a particular class/spec or type of dps and because it's impossible. But across the board, if you look at numbers across a variety of different fights, things should be pretty close to even for all classes, and everyone should have the chance to hit #1 on certain fights. The numbers you see in the beta, prior to final tuning, should not be used as a basis for comparison of the dps of different classes. Only after release will we know what the comparative numbers really look like, and even then there will still be many adjustments made in future patches.

    The classes that will be most desired in any raid will be those needed to balance the raid's numbers. Overall, you will still need 1-3 tanks, 6-10 healers, and around 15 dps for most raids, and in most cases there will probably be an advantage to bringing both melee, ranged and spellcasters, and in general you'll get more buffs from bringing a variety of classes as opposed to stacking a single class. Kind of like now. The only real difference I see based on the change is that it gives more viability to that second enhancement shaman or boomkin or ret paladin, so their raid invite is not solely dependent upon a buff. Which is a good thing, since nobody enjoys feeling like the spec you enjoy isn't raid viable, and nobody enjoys feeling like a walking crit totem either.

    I am not one to implicitly trust Blizzard's class design so much, but when they explicitly say that all classes should have equal dps potential, I am willing to trust that they will implement something close to that. In any case if you play a "pure" class and are upset because hybrids won't be capped at 95% of your dps, consider that it could be because "pure" classes have utility too.

  10. #50

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Lol, if you people honestly think Blizzard is capable of creating classes of equal, even semi-equal DPS output.... you've obviously been playing for a month.

    Don't forget that arena is also an area of balance, and as long as it exists, one class will always be superior at damage dealing, and one class will be the worst, and the gap will never be close.

    Maybe closer than TBC, but a 10% margin I don't foresee as being possible.

  11. #51

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baever
    Lol, if you people honestly think Blizzard is capable of creating classes of equal, even semi-equal DPS output.... you've obviously been playing for a month.
    You seem to forget...they have never tried before

  12. #52

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Menin
    posted directly from my friends raid

    Patchwerk results from Naxx 25:

    1 Malakai (lock-destro): 4922
    2 Xenocloud (rogue-assn): 4175
    3 Cheesy (mage-arc): 3975
    4 Leica (hunter-surv): 3744
    5 Nukezz (lock-affliction?): 3707
    6 Lightnyn (ele sham): 3689
    7 Sorebawlz (hunter-bm): 3536
    8 Empyrea (mage-fire): 3186
    9 Priz (hunter-surv): 3149
    10 Mysticfox (mage-frost): 3217
    11 Wishes (priest-shadow): 2792
    12 Teq (DK-blood): 2537
    13 Rekk (War-Arms?): 2197
    14 Supyo (Pally-Ret): 2255
    15 Devium (DK-Frost): 1843
    That's an old dps chart.

    For example, that was before AB got nerfed into the ground for arcane mages. Arcane mages can't put out anywhere near that amount of dps now.

  13. #53

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Fixed.

    1 Malakai (lock-destro): 4922
    2 Xenocloud (rogue-assn): 4175
    3 Cheesy (mage-arc): 3975
    4 Leica (hunter-surv): 3744
    5 Nukezz (lock-affliction?): 3707
    6 Lightnyn (ele sham): 3689
    7 Sorebawlz (hunter-bm): 3536
    8 Mysticfox (mage-frost): 3217
    9 Empyrea (mage-fire): 3186
    10 Priz (hunter-surv): 3149
    11 Wishes (priest-shadow): 2792
    12 Teq (DK-blood): 2537
    13 Supyo (Pally-Ret): 2255
    14 Rekk (War-Arms?): 2197
    15 Devium (DK-Frost): 1843


    Good thing they are just recently working on numbers. Ironic that I have heard nothing but people complaing Ret pallies are OP and yet they are doing less than half the DPS of the the guys at the top of the charts.

  14. #54

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Menin
    actually you are wrong...the game is all just numbers and the devs are perfectly capable of making output numbers equal to each other.


    yes it is old, if by old you mean two weeks. they asked for raid dps and i posted. if you have anything thats from wotlk live that comes out in 2 months go ahead an post it. oh wait you dont? then stay quiet, you arent clever
    Calm down. Angry McRage.

    I'm just pointing out to people that those numbers are old and shouldn't be relied upon as to how the various classes and specs perform on the dps metres. A lot has changed since then. No need to get defensive.

    And we'll see about the devs making output numbers the same. We know that in end level raiding for BT they got it wrong. Classes raiding SWP had quite a big gap in dps compared to others.

  15. #55

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Im not so sure Menin.

    Ive seen plenty of weekly reports from retadins doing well over 3k @ 80 in raid enviroments. I would be much more apt to believe your retadin sucked donkey nut balls than that the spec/class is weak. I know a lot of live retadins who should do over 1k raid dps but cant seem to break 500 too.

    Call me silly but I believe Blizzard is telling us the truth when they say on their spreadsheets ret pallies are doing competitive EG +-200 dps than pures.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  16. #56

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture
    We know that in end level raiding for BT they got it wrong. Classes raiding SWP had quite a big gap in dps compared to others.
    In BT/SWP Blizzard was not trying to make all classes have equal DPS potential, this was not even remotely a goal for them. Now it is an explicit goal.

    They didn't "get it wrong", they changed their class design philosophy.

  17. #57

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badeggplant
    In BT/SWP Blizzard was not trying to make all classes have equal DPS potential, this was not even remotely a goal for them. Now it is an explicit goal.

    They didn't "get it wrong", they changed their class design philosophy.
    Ironically if you care to do the research you will see that well played/geared players preform almost exactly how blizzard says they designed them to.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  18. #58

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morden
    This is not a who you think will be top, but more of a who you would be happy with:

    1. Rogue 100%
    2. Mage 95%
    3. Warlock / Hunter 90%
    4. DPS DK/ DPS Shaman / DPS Warriors / Retri Pally / DPS Druid / Shadow Priest 70-80%
    5. Tanks any specs 60%


    Im hoping they float around those sort of numbers myself, anyone else think different or similar?
    Agree 95%, I'd put Warriors on par with locks and hunters

    I'd like to remember everyone that rogues and mages can ONLY do dps so i think they deserve to stay on top...

    I'm talking about raid dps, not instances/heroics.

  19. #59

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    thanks for info Menin...

    from what i saw on videos, enh shamy and dk are little behind rogues and mages...
    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisgoat
    I got full epic before losing my virginity :P

  20. #60

    Re: Raid DPS Rankings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Menin
    how is that ironic...
    5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected From dictionary.com

    Its ironic because you inferred that Blizzard in spite of their best efforts could neither predict the end-game results nor could they make it "balanced". They actually did both It just wasnt what us hybrids wanted.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

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