Major Increase of Progression next patch?

[Torquee]

(when the patch come out) Are guilds who downed the first coupld bosses in MH and BT (my guild atm 3/9 BT and 3/5 MH) are goin to atleast get to illidian or farther by the time of LK comes out? Since all dps is increased a lot... 30% hp of raid bosses reduced... and what ever else they are doing... Saying that everyone knows the fights and what to do at them
Any comments about this? Or if there has alrdy been discussion on this topic plz link it or something

[Luminair]

If you've only downed three bosses and aren't already making rapid progression, I doubt it. The new abilities aren't going to cheese fights to a massive degree. I would expect the change to effect people in late Sunwell the most.

[Rambobarbq]

every guild will get 1-2 new kill and maybe more if dedicated.

new ability giving more dps and dont forget the boss 30% hp nerf

[Luminair]

well you have to think alot of things has changed and ultamitly can hinder big end raiding guilds

Heroism now is raid wide but has 5 minute debuff
Sheild wall now 1min cooldown
drums now have cooldown

big thing is the drums for say brutalis. since hes on a 6min enrage timer those thing are crucial to the raid but now since they have cooldown it would be ahrder to bring him down. the 30% health reduction + dps boost have sort of rounded it out. thats y Illidan cant shear anymore cuz shield wall is 1min cooldown so it would eat up the tank after the 2nd shear.

all in all it rounds its self out

You don't appear to have any idea how these encounters work.

Brutallus doesn't rely on drums to that degree. I believe we have two people with leatherworking in our raids currently, only the melee - so there isn't a complete uptime. The endless drum rotation was more or less needed for everyone before the Muru nerf months ago, but in the aftermath it's wholly unnecessary.

Shield Wall isn't the talent that is needed to negate Shear, that would be Shield Block.

[Kalash]

well you have to think alot of things has changed and ultamitly can hinder big end raiding guilds

Heroism now is raid wide but has 5 minute debuff
Sheild wall now 1min cooldown
drums now have cooldown

big thing is the drums for say brutalis. since hes on a 6min enrage timer those thing are crucial to the raid but now since they have cooldown it would be ahrder to bring him down. the 30% health reduction + dps boost have sort of rounded it out. thats y Illidan cant shear anymore cuz shield wall is 1min cooldown so it would eat up the tank after the 2nd shear.

all in all it rounds its self out

But you still have to do 30% less damage befor he enrages, to kill him. This should make up most of the changes.

Also you have to remember, the some builds are no longer possible with only 61 talent points to spent as some talents get moved deeper in the talent trees. Overall i'd say, 30% less hp doesn't mean 30% easier to kill. But Overall it will be still a huge nerf on most bosses.

[Kalash]

Shield Wall isn't the talent that is needed to negate Shear, that would be Shield Block.

There is no Shear anymore in 3.0.2 ^^

[necravolver285]

There is no Shear anymore in 3.0.2 ^^

i think he was explaining why, since shield block has been changed dramatically

[Malfuron]

i think he was explaining why, since shield block has been changed dramatically

I like how they changed it to accommodate the change in Shield Block rather than the fact that just about no other class could tank Illidan.

[Geckomayhem]

This is something that will change with the expansion. Any boss will be tankable with any class of tank. Just as no fight will be dependent on the healing dynamic of certain healer class makeup, and the DPS will not have a certain balance requirement, in terms of specific buffs that must be present, or ranged vs melee numbers.

I see the health nerf as being more for the sake of getting through instance content faster to reach Northrend all the faster, as compared to raiding guilds being given a couple of weeks to progress further through level 70 content.

Gaiwyn of Proudmoore

[velourea]

you will still need to learn the encounter but yea it will indeed be easier to progress
that was the idea I suppose

[Solidseal]

I guess there will be alot guilds who are going to have some raid filling problems.
I have seen it once at the 2.0 patch that alot of guildies will respec there char for the upcomming expansion.
Perhaps most guild are falling appart or they will get ready for Wotlk.

[Kenark]

I believe that guilds atm working on gear-check-fights will proceed with the patch but if you have been working on a tactics fight, you haven't suddenly become better with a patch at that.

[Chrysanthemum]

I like how they changed it to accommodate the change in Shield Block rather than the fact that just about no other class could tank Illidan.

I think it was as much to accomodate Shield Block as it was to help encourage end game raiding guilds to use Bears as MT on any content. They have removed Crushing Blows from raid encounters after all (well, moved it so you're target needs to be 4 lvls higher than you to start accruing CB's, but still.)

[ManniAT]

We are currently raiding BT (clear) and SWP.
And I guess the -30% + the expected (as seen on PTR) damage boost will do two things for us.
a.) Much faster progress in BT (Trash is also -30% which saves a lot of time)
b.) More Time for SWP - and the bosses a bit easier.

So we expect to have 1 to 3 new bosses in SWP before the expansion arrives.

Still you have to know what the encounter does to be successfull.

Why do some guild not have BT clear?
It's a bit equip - but most of all it is "training", members that know how to act correct on an encounter.
--So you have to have a stable raid (mostly the same members) to make progress.

I compare it to Aran (Kara) - even if you have a lot of DPS/Heal -- when people walk around in the fire you'll whipe.
Still -30% can help in such situations also -- because the lesser HP the faster you down a boss (an add).
This reduces the time for mistakes also.

But if HP is not reduced to a level where you can "brute force" an encounter you still have to play concentrated and the members must know what to do.

And what I ment with training is also a bitter fact (at least for us atm): It's hard to fill a raid with the same people - some don't have that much interest they have had before.
The reason? Why to go there -- items will be waste with the expansion.
So atm raiding is (for some members) a kind of "waste the time till WotLK".
And if the raid means "train a new encounter" - a lot of members decide not to spent an evening with whipes. Instead they do not register for the raid.

The new talents - combined with the reduced HP will do two things for us:
a.) Training becomes interesting again (check out the new things and so)
b.) More success is expected since bosses become easier.

[Frovi]

For us it wont make a big difference. We are experiencing a lack of acitivity and thus find it hard to get 25 players on their feet. Its really the hardest boss to take down = getting the players. Really looking forward to Wotlk now. 10-mans ftw

[Kare]

For us it wont make a big difference. We are experiencing a lack of acitivity and thus find it hard to get 25 players on their feet. Its really the hardest boss to take down = getting the players. Really looking forward to Wotlk now. 10-mans ftw

Same here, we currently have decided to go on spontaneous raiding until WotLK. Unless we have 25 people on ready to go at raid time, its just casual play until WotLK. I agree I can not wait for the 10-mans to make their debut, hence why I am leaving my current guild to form my own with close friends of mine. ;D

[Amgyn]

WOTLK will not kill guilds like TBC did.

going from filling 40man raids to filling 10-25 man raids where lots of 'good' raiders would have to sit out to give lots of people some raid time was rough.

lots of guilds broke out into many smaller guilds. I know when TBC first came out, our vanilla guild was optimistic. But people were lagging behind the more *cough*enthusiastic*cough* players who hit 70 quick. those players left and joined/formed more 'serious' guilds.

ANYWAY... i dont see this happening yet in WOTLK, other than the peopel who level overnight and leaving tojoin other level 80's... its a cycle, but wont be as bad as Vanilla ->TBC. instead of having 3 BIG guilds, each sever has almot 8 BIG guilds.

[Flautze]

going from filling 40man raids to filling 10-25 man raids where lots of 'good' raiders would have to sit out to give lots of people some raid time was rough.

Well actually it wasnt, you just left out those people who wouldnt really perform in the 40mans or how I would say, the players who didnt know how to play/run out of fire anyway. In the 40 mans there was most times at least 5-10 ppl. that didnt know what to do or just didnt want to, but in the 40 man content that didnt really matter.
Having gone to Kara (in the beginning) with some of those just was the confirmation for that.

[aikanaro]

I like how they changed it to accommodate the change in Shield Block rather than the fact that just about no other class could tank Illidan.

rofl are you implying that only warriors could tank illidan? if you are... wow.. ive never ever had a warrior tank illidan... ever... lol... only paladins.

[ManniAT]

We see the same thing as happend with TBC - near the patch no one (very litte) was interested in raids.
But reducing the sice down from 40 gave us enough members to progress after about two weeks of leveling.
And the 10s were great too.
Because "leveling partners" could very fast start Kara Raids.
And later other joind / we made several groups...

Now sizes stay the same - but still very little (10) members are needed to "restart" raiding after leveling.
We are a bit stressed to fill the raids now (till now we didn't have to cancel any run) - but I guess with the patch it will become better.

And for the addon we decided to make a raid break