View Poll Results: do you like the idea

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  • Yes

    8 44.44%
  • No

    4 22.22%
  • Could use some working on

    6 33.33%
  1. #1

    [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    long time reader first time poster go easy one me :P

    Something like this

    Reckoning Gives you a 30% chance after you dodge/parry/block that the next attack within 4 sec will generate an additional attack causing weapon damage as Holy damage

    imo that looked a lot more appealing as a tank than the current one

    what do u think

  2. #2

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    Yes but 30% is too much.
    This user has been banned.

  3. #3

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    Well the number was plucked out of the air tbh i was thinkign 20% at first i dunno maby 15%

    or maby 50% with a 8 sec internal cooldown

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire lumenos's Avatar
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    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    The problem with Reckoning in pretty much anything but leveling, is that it sets you up to be insta-gibbed by parry mechanics resetting boss swing timers. Unless you are expertise capped, Reckoning in any tanking build is sheer folly.

  5. #5

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    How is 1 xtra attack every 4-8 secs gonna insta gib u ?

    and in that case it could be changed to

    *Reckoning Gives you a 30% chance after you dodge/parry/block that the next attack within 4 sec will cause additional dmg based on 100% weapon damage as Holy damage



  6. #6

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    IIRC when you parry an attack your swing timer is reduced, not the swing timer of the NPC / player attacking you?

    Wowwiki seems to confirm:

    Swing timer When you parry an attack, the remaining time on your current swing is reduced by 40% of your weapon speed, unless this would result in a reduction to less than 20% of your swing time remaining.
    Source: Formulas:Parry


    So I don't know what Lumenos is on about.

    N/m, I miss read Lumenos his / her post. What he / she said holds true, more attacks made equals more chances of being parried equals more change of getting gibbed.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  7. #7
    Blademaster Nich's Avatar
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    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by lumenos
    The problem with Reckoning in pretty much anything but leveling, is that it sets you up to be insta-gibbed by parry mechanics resetting boss swing timers. Unless you are expertise capped, Reckoning in any tanking build is sheer folly.
    Uh, no.

    It's a trivial addition considering how little it procs in tanking gear, not to mention the number of instant attacks available to warriors in live, let alone paladins in wotlk.

    If reckoning is bad for the reasons you stated, noone would ever use the live version of windfury totem as a threat bonus. And no-one would use fast 1h tanking weapons. But they do.


    I like the basic idea of the OP. I think it should proc on miss/dodge/parry/full block, not just on actual hits. But due to seal of vengeance mechanics, I think the extra attacks should be dealt as holy damage, not physical, to make it seal independent.

  8. #8

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by lumenos
    The problem with Reckoning in pretty much anything but leveling, is that it sets you up to be insta-gibbed by parry mechanics resetting boss swing timers. Unless you are expertise capped, Reckoning in any tanking build is sheer folly.
    that is such garbage

    A. warriors trigger more parries than we do WITH RECKONING UP since they use fast (1.5 speed is normal) weapons and abilities that can be parried every GCD

    B. We have twice as many block charges


    C. CRUSHES WILL BE GONE



  9. #9

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    but as to the idea

    I don't think reckoning is broken in WotLK. Heck it's not really broken in live. It's mostly a victim of tree bloat.



  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire lumenos's Avatar
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    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    End game raid bosses currently can easily hit a tank for half their life in one hit. If you're getting extra swings every few seconds and you're not expertise capped, you WILL get insta-gibbed at some point.

    Nich:

    Warriors have much more expertise available to them on their gear currently.

    We will be sharing gear in expansion, excluding tiered sets, so i would assume expertise will be more available to us, thus making my argument moot. As it stands now, however, Reckoning is bad, period. Show me an end game pally tank that's not expertise capped or close to it that uses reckoning. Chances are you won't find it.


  11. #11

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    that uses reckoning.
    do try to keep up. A fair number of endgame tanks have 3/5 reckoning.

    honestly if parry haste was a huge factor you'd see a lot more people clamoring for slow weapons.

  12. #12
    Blademaster Nich's Avatar
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    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    With sunwell radiance cutting avoidance down, I've seen/read of a fair few pallies who pick reck back up in sunwell plateau.

  13. #13
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    From my PoV as a tank, I wouldn't want this "new one".

    3/5 Reckoning has an insanely high uptime.
    Parryhaste by Reckoning is a myth.


    To Lumenos:
    http://armory.wow-europe.com/charact...rfist&n=Worldi
    http://armorylite.com/us/frostmane/fridmarr/

    Now just don't tell me they use special expertise gear for raiding or respec to lose reckoning once they enter a raidgroup.
    Head over to Maintankadin and see for yourself...

    I've always had 3-5 points in reckoning, from early karazhan to late sunwell and there was never ever a single whipe due to me being "reckoning-parry-haste-insta-gibbed"


    About the new reckoning idea:
    If this strike would happen every 8s and it wouldn't proc the seal, it would be like about 25% increase in white-dmg-tps, I don't know any numbers of 80ish 5's, 10's and 25's so I can't tell you if it would be worth it to have 25% increase in white-tps... At this very moment, it wouldn't be worth a penny (even if your weapon would be sporting 300 DpS, these 75 sutained TpS don't seem that impressive)

  14. #14

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    the TPS would be pretty good actually cos its "an additional attack causing weapon damage as Holy damage" so its holy dmg TPS

    So it would be like a free single target HotR proc

  15. #15

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    high threat = gimp for soloing and PvP

  16. #16

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    xtra 100% wep dmg attack as holy dmg (with has low to no chance of being resisted) how would that be bad for solo ?

  17. #17

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    because it's tuned to TPS not DPS so the higher the TPS multiplier the lower the DPS.

    You always have to assume tuning.

  18. #18

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    Idea: Move Reckoning into the Ret tree in exchange for Deflection?
    "My rage bar is blue, and I start the fight pissed!" - Battlecry of the Ret Paladin.
    "The best defense is a good offense." - Motto of the Ret Paladin.
    River Below - Billy Talent - Theme Song of the Ret Paladin.

    DK Death Strike Tanking
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  19. #19

    Re: [Suggestions] New Reckoning Idea

    No. Just change it from 10% chance on being hit to....10% chance on avoiding an attack/spell to generate attacks etc, etc, etc.
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