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  1. #1

    What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    I've been trying to keep up on the paladin and druid boards here for the past few weeks, but works been a bit crazy. Trying to catch back up with the paladin changes have confused me a little bit after reading a few posts. What exactly have they changed about the paladin healing style? I read some information about a change to FoL making it not as efficient as it was before? If someone could fill me in I would greatly appreciate it.

  2. #2

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    The changes to downranking made HL 7-9 spam impossible, thus Paladins find themselves in a bit of a pinch, as most of our talents were designed with HL spam in mind.

    Now FoL is our only really useful heal and the change to the L. 80 base ability Sacred Shield to support FoL spam shows that the designers are aware of the problem but do not yet think that giving us a new baseline heal is necessary.

    Another problem is that the 51 Holy talent Beacon of Light and the leading talents from DI on are not very attractive compared to 5% crit from Convinction and Sheath of Light in the Ret tree.

  3. #3

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Strange to me that they can take the simplest healing class in the game flop some coefficients around and everything goes crazy.

    I assume these issues are to be addressed in the new paladin revisions?

  4. #4

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    If you downranked as a paladin you sucked, i'm sorry to be blunt but it's true. The only thing I ever downranked was a rank 1 holy light to proc my libram (22 mp5) and that's it. I never have mana issues and i'm in Sunwell, with 224 haste. If you are having mana issues, instead of taking the easy way out of downranking (and yes this is why they removed it so people stop being dumb and not learning their class) maybe you should regem and up your MP5 or better yet your Crit.

    Pallies are fine in TBC, Pallies are better in WOTLK. Please learn the class...

    And beacon of light > sheath of light...

    Let's see, an ability I can use where i can heal 2 people at once, or a situational hot that i'll never really need. Face it, our HOly Light's at 70 are already 8.5k crits (and you shoudl be critting most of them) so why would we need 60% of that into a hot? Unless the tank is about to die, it's very very situational whereas beacon is not. Sheath of Light is more suitable for PVP imo but...I would see it being a good choice to have maybe 1 paladin pick up Sheath for raids and the rest beacons but that's it.

  5. #5

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by rec0re
    Strange to me that they can take the simplest healing class in the game flop some coefficients around and everything goes crazy.

    I assume these issues are to be addressed in the new paladin revisions?
    Yes, Paladins are getting a huge revision, because of changes to the core game mechanics. Every class does, and I'm glad they aren't leaving Paladins out. Not because I play a Paladin, but because I am sick and tired of hearing about the Paladins being left out in Beta.

    This has nothing to do with those people who are like rec0re, who just asked simple questions about them, but to those who cry about Paladins:

    Stop whining, it's despicable and sad. It is beta people, EFFING BETA! If the game goes live the way it is, then it would be horrible. In advance, to those who would possibly say "Well, patch 3.0 is coming out and that is going to introduce everything we will see in the game class wise." don't need to, because when they release that patch, they will have most likely fixed everything to work they way they want it to work out, or will continue to fix it and after the expansion comes out, they will do another update to again, fix the classes.

    So, if you did not get anything out of that, I'll summarize it. JUST WAIT GOD DAMN IT!


    If you don't chew Big Red... That is fine.

  6. #6

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Paladins healing is fine, downranking is not required for any part of the game to succeed, it was just a way for people to cope with their inablities to handle their mana. Beacon and SoL are both nice and should be one of each in your raid if you have two paladins. I still kinda prefer SoL, having a heal put a hot on a target when I crit is very useful and noway just a situational spell as suggested earlier. It is nice to slap someone with a heal and move to another target and heal that aswell. So let's all relax, and when wrath comes out we will all see that paladins will still be amazing.

  7. #7

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by everette00
    Yes, Paladins are getting a huge revision, because of changes to the core game mechanics. Every class does, and I'm glad they aren't leaving Paladins out. Not because I play a Paladin, but because I am sick and tired of hearing about the Paladins being left out in Beta.

    This has nothing to do with those people who are like rec0re, who just asked simple questions about them, but to those who cry about Paladins:

    Stop whining, it's despicable and sad. It is beta people, EFFING BETA! If the game goes live the way it is, then it would be horrible. In advance, to those who would possibly say "Well, patch 3.0 is coming out and that is going to introduce everything we will see in the game class wise." don't need to, because when they release that patch, they will have most likely fixed everything to work they way they want it to work out, or will continue to fix it and after the expansion comes out, they will do another update to again, fix the classes.

    So, if you did not get anything out of that, I'll summarize it. JUST WAIT GOD DAMN IT!


    I agree. Too much theorycrafting right out of the gates is a bad idea. I think it's mostly that we're all bored with the current content we have nothing to look forward to until release. I've been guilty at getting mad about changes that quickly were fixed in the beta. Either way, I like my druid and my paladin for two different reasons now. If I level both of them, I'm sure there will be just as many different reasons to like them in WotLK.

  8. #8

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by meroko
    If you downranked as a paladin you sucked, i'm sorry to be blunt but it's true. The only thing I ever downranked was a rank 1 holy light to proc my libram (22 mp5) and that's it. I never have mana issues and i'm in Sunwell, with 224 haste. If you are having mana issues, instead of taking the easy way out of downranking (and yes this is why they removed it so people stop being dumb and not learning their class) maybe you should regem and up your MP5 or better yet your Crit.
    This needs quoting, because it is that stupid.

  9. #9

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blutelf
    This needs quoting, because it is that stupid.
    How come? I never downranked either yet I didn't have mana issues for that matter. ???
    - Hand: n., A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody's pocket. - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

  10. #10

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    nothing has happened to paladins at all and thats the problem
    GG!

  11. #11

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by GayGirlie
    How come? I never downranked either yet I didn't have mana issues for that matter. ???
    So in Sunwell you can spam rank 11 HL continually (and i mean CONTINUALLY) and not run OOM ? You sir are a liar

  12. #12

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by meroko
    If you downranked as a paladin you sucked, i'm sorry to be blunt but it's true. The only thing I ever downranked was a rank 1 holy light to proc my libram (22 mp5) and that's it. I never have mana issues and i'm in Sunwell, with 224 haste. If you are having mana issues, instead of taking the easy way out of downranking (and yes this is why they removed it so people stop being dumb and not learning their class) maybe you should regem and up your MP5 or better yet your Crit.

    Sir, you are an almighty idiot. If you spam rank 11 holy light for 2 minutes you will be OOM regardless of your libram.
    Or does your guild make you sit out for M'uru as your a paladin and well frankly they SUCK on such fights? I suspect you haven't seen him yet have you, well actually i'm willing to bet you haven't or you wouldn't make such a clueless post to begin with.

    M'uru takes an almighty fine balance of HL7-8 mixed in with rank 11 and the occasional (if tank is at 100%) fol, this is only sustainable using this rotation and it is in NO WAY possible to spam rank 11 HL for 5 minutes even with a shadow priest.

    Now go spread your "I've healed the initial trash in a pug so I can say downranking paladins suck" stories elsewhere :P

  13. #13

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff
    Sir, you are an almighty idiot. If you spam rank 11 holy light for 2 minutes you will be OOM regardless of your libram.
    Or does your guild make you sit out for M'uru as your a paladin and well frankly they SUCK on such fights? I suspect you haven't seen him yet have you, well actually i'm willing to bet you haven't or you wouldn't make such a clueless post to begin with.

    M'uru takes an almighty fine balance of HL7-8 mixed in with rank 11 and the occasional (if tank is at 100%) fol, this is only sustainable using this rotation and it is in NO WAY possible to spam rank 11 HL for 5 minutes even with a shadow priest.

    Now go spread your "I've healed the initial trash in a pug so I can say downranking paladins suck" stories elsewhere :P
    Thank you! someone with a brain!

  14. #14

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    @ meroko

    I have tried to explain this to so many retard paladins it's mind-numbing. Just because you're in Sunwell and your guild hasn't noticed that you're a horrible player because they think "oh, paladins will be low on healing meters since they're just tank spammers" gives you NO ROOM to tell other people how to play. I'll try to illustrate this for all you pea-brains out there.

    2k damage: flash of light, flash heal, lesser healing wave, lifebloom.

    5k+ damage: holy light, greater heal, healing wave, regrowth

    In between and/or raid damage: renew, prayer of mending, circle of healing, prayer of healing, shield, chain heal, rejuv, tranquility.

    Notice anything about that last one? There are no other paladin abilities that can handle situational damage or party damage. This means you either have to overheal and go oom with top rank HL...or lower your healing per second (ending up in people taking more damage, namely the tank, risking a wipe). We don't have any other skills to use (holy shock is a joke, unless they seriously revamp it it'll run us oom even faster than top rank). That's why using downranked holy lights are important. They gain more bonuses from talents, and have a better coefficient than flash of light. Simply put, anyone who thinks flash of light is a good heal is a retard. And I may be wrong here, but top rank holy light is probably the least mana efficient heal in the game if it doesn't crit.

  15. #15

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    down ranks are nice I agree and some sunwell fights are gonna suck without but have you ever heard of stop casting?

  16. #16

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    i had to laugh @ meroko xDDD
    pls show spaming 8min HL11 at muru....with a shadow+resto it's mathematical AND in practice IMPSOSSIBLE....ok it would be possible if you only cast fol max and HL max ( 50%-50% ) perhaps BUT that's no skill only LUCK if your tank survives!

    with max HL spam you CANNOT sustain maximum HPS over such a fight duration....downranking delivers ALWAYS more HPS than FOL-HL11 mix spam

    and pls dont yell anything about epeen-meter where y see effect. heal -.- post an WWSlog with you rawheal and y will see that y SUCK.
    effective heal is LUCK by 80% and reaction by 20% @ boss encounter (only some random numbers) as paladin you can top many effect. healmeters with massive haste and FOLspam but a small rawheal output.

    people like you meroko think they are imba cos other healers in the raid helped them to heal the MT and you only have -30% MTheal as singleMThealer...i must laugh


    sry for my bad english.

    majokin

  17. #17

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormlord
    down ranks are nice I agree and some sunwell fights are gonna suck without but have you ever heard of stop casting?
    Stopcasting doesn't change the fact that there is no "in between" heal for paladins...it's either overheal, underheal, or bust. Also...if you'd ever done Brutallus, you'd know there is no such thing as "stopcasting."

  18. #18

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    There is also no thing as overheal on brutallus? :P

  19. #19

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by meroko
    If you downranked as a paladin you sucked, i'm sorry to be blunt but it's true. The only thing I ever downranked was a rank 1 holy light to proc my libram (22 mp5) and that's it. I never have mana issues and i'm in Sunwell, with 224 haste. If you are having mana issues, instead of taking the easy way out of downranking (and yes this is why they removed it so people stop being dumb and not learning their class) maybe you should regem and up your MP5 or better yet your Crit.

    Pallies are fine in TBC, Pallies are better in WOTLK. Please learn the class...

    And beacon of light > sheath of light...

    Let's see, an ability I can use where i can heal 2 people at once, or a situational hot that i'll never really need. Face it, our HOly Light's at 70 are already 8.5k crits (and you shoudl be critting most of them) so why would we need 60% of that into a hot? Unless the tank is about to die, it's very very situational whereas beacon is not. Sheath of Light is more suitable for PVP imo but...I would see it being a good choice to have maybe 1 paladin pick up Sheath for raids and the rest beacons but that's it.
    Wow okay... where to start.

    You just put 99.9% of the skilled Paladins into the "you suck" section, considering even those who don't use rank 9 (which is most of them anyway) use rank 4 to keep up Light's Grace at least.

    Like someone noted, if you spammed HL rank 11 you would be out of mana quite quick, and with 224 haste you would have to be some kind of hacker if you spammed rank 11 only and not run out of mana.

    Maybe you are a FOL spammer? Not going to generalise and say you don't run out of mana because you are just totally the best pally in teh world.

    Paladins are not fine in TBC and we are not fine in WOTLK, the only class learning to be done is by you.

    So here's a huge list of problems with our current Beacon of Light since you are obviously to retarded to work out all the faults by yourself, by guy named Wallplug,

    Personally don't like the current Beacon of Light. Here are some of the complex problems that arise from the new version.

    1* The beacon target essentially is healed randomly, you cannot control your healing output on the Beacon'd target because friendly targets take damage at different times. So the real only advantage is when you spam heals.
    2* Dispel-able, making it mostly useless for PVP.
    3* Doesn't work on overheals, this is connect to the first point. So not only do the targets have to both be taking damage at the same points in time, but both have to be damage for the Beacon to be fully effective.
    4* Its 1.5 second cast time downgrades its use even further in PVP, connected to point 2.
    5* Its high mana cost further degrades its use in most situations, a Paladin should have the option to effective switch the Beacon from player to player without feeling "to" disadvantaged while doing so.

    Beacon of Light instead of helping our viability as a healer in PVE or PVP just mimics what we already do. So instead of improving our healing it is effectively multiplying and doubling what minor or ineffective healing we do (and doubling it randomly, since targets take damage at different points). It is an interesting idea and a good concept, but like all of our talents in all our trees currently (and the new base skills we are not receiving yet need) isn't fully developed into what it should be.

    There are only a few situations currently in PVE where Beacon of Light really stands out, both are similar, firstly is Illidan Phase 2 which can effectively be done by two spamming Paladins with this ability. Secondly and the most effective is Brutallus which effective cuts the Paladins needed in half because all Holy Paladins are doing on Brut is spamming heals without really effectively looking at health bars. And even then, you are spamming one target with Heals, yet any over heals are not repeated to the Beacon'd tank, and if you heal your target'd tank the Beacon tank may very well be fully healed already.

    (made the last sentence notable because it brings out all the faults that Beacon of Light comes with)
    Why wouldn't you need 60% of a 9k crit in HoT form? Paladins would be obtaining the biggest non-stacked HoT tick in the game at that rate.

    It pretty much adds 60% more healing to your crits, to your heals that hit. With that said, there are core problems with SoL as much as BoL and both need MAJOR fixing.


    But seriously, you are retarded, what are you 12? Holy Paladins are the worst healer in the game and if Holy doesn't get a complete make over/buff we will continue to be the worst healer, IF NOT THE WORST SPEC in the game.

  20. #20

    Re: What exactly happened to holy paladins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chumpp
    Stopcasting doesn't change the fact that there is no "in between" heal for paladins...it's either overheal, underheal, or bust. Also...if you'd ever done Brutallus, you'd know there is no such thing as "stopcasting."
    Ya, and not everyone has 50 or less ms to stopcasting effectively.... QQ

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