[Beta] Suggestions

[Telitzp]

If there is a Wrath Beta reading this: I hope that you can find some way to post our suggestions on the Beta forums to get looked at by the Dev's.

What I would like to do from here is to gather all our suggestions and put them into a big pile of crap that the Dev can look at (Basically like the Q&A before).

What we do not want to look at is: Inner Fire, and the Spirit Buff. We all know that it is a lost cause and I would not like to put those into this list. Thank you.

My following suggestions:

Discipline
1: Renewed Hope
Increases the critical effect chance of your Flash Heal, Greater Heal and Penance spells by 3%,6% on targets afflicted by the Weakend Soul effect.

Problem with this talent-
Eight out of ten people will not take it. I have to rely on my Weakend Soul effect to get a benefit? No thanks. It also just is not that 'good'.

Suggestions-
S1. It is called Renewed Hope; lets have it do something with renew. When your renew is dispelled, there is a 25%,50% chance of it refreshing instead.
S2. Again, going with the name, Renewed Hope; Your renew has a 5%,10% of double casting every tick.
S3. You have a 5%,10% chance to remove one Physical debuff when hit by melee.

2: Grace
Your Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and Penance spells have a 50% chance to bless the target with Grace, reducing damage done to the target by 1%. This effect will stack up to 3 times. Effect lasts 8 sec.

Problem with this talent-
Everyone knows that grace was nerfed into the ground. Again, I believe eight out of ten people will not pick up this talent. It would be nice to see this getting revamped or changed into a whole new talent.

Suggestions-
S1. Going with the name 'Grace', we could do something like the following: Your Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and Penance spells have a 7%,15% chance to bless the target with Grace, removing all movement impairing effects for the next 3 seconds.
S2. Again, going with the name, as in someone should be Graced by your heals: Your Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and Penance spells have a 5%, 10% chance to bless the target with Grace, granting them either X amount of rage, mana, energy.

3. Divine Aegis
Critical heals create a protective shied on the target, absorbing 10%, 20%, 30% of the amount healed. Lasts 12 sec.

Problem with this talent-
For me personally, I do not like the talent. I have heard that some people like it, so it's going to be an iffy talent to get or not get. However, I think it could really use a make over. We all know that priests are not a critical aura class (of course with buffs being Raid wide) that can be changed. I understand your reasoning for making it attractive to raid's, but it still is not perfect for PvE or PvP. It can still use some revamping.

Suggestions-
S1. Critical heals create a protective shield on the target, absorbing 10%, 20%, 30% of the amount healed and leaves a divine renew that heals the target for 10%, 20%, 30% of the amount healed.
S2. This one could be a little iffy, but it doesn't sound so terrible. You can make Divine Aegis into a 1 point talent on a 2 minute cooldown. It would be a little something like this: You place Divine Aegis onto a target that has a Weakend Soul effect. It removes that Weakend Soul effect and places the same exact Power Word: Shield that was on before it was removed.

Holy
Healing Prayers & Divine Providence:
I believe these two talents can be merged.

Shadow
Silence:
I believe the cooldown can be reduced to 24 seconds. (Even Improved Silence would be nice) - 2 Point talent to reduce the cooldown by 10/20 seconds.


(I got really tired, so my Holy / Shadow is a little terrible) - That is what all of you are for. Let's help make the Priest class a good one in Wrath!

[Mandible]

Grace needs to be moved down to 21 points and be a one point talent so its in line with BLESSING OF SANCTUARY... and also have an effect added to give it more value (the added healing would be a good starting suggestion, so it works with all other healers in the group/ raid).

If there was any proof out there that priest developers are [insert really fitting negative word] bad at setting up the disc tree its this one thing (as it stands now). Not saying I'm quitting or even changing class if this goes through - just that you won't see alot of disc priests for pve (with grace at least, and not sure what you could bring of value besides that with the non stacking buffs).

[Elicium]

While we're at it...

I'd like silence without having to put the two points into Improved physic scream.
It's always been a beef with me as silence can be very useful for 10 man raids and rarely use fear.

[Rushuna]

Personally I like Divine Aegis how it is now, I can't wait to see it, but I do say that making all my crit heals (Which ATM in PvE gear with deep Disc talents crit around 8.5k) put a 30% shield on the target (2.7k Shield, which is STRONGER than my current PW:Shield) AND heal 30% of what I healed over time is a bit OP, that's like the Ret talent. Just a tad OP honestly. If you think about it this way as well, with Rapture, that 8.5k crit that just cost me 770 mana will be returning about 740ish mana back, which IMHO is plenty powerful enough for me to pick up the talent. Same with Renewed Hope, if I am using GHeal on my target after shielding them, 6% higher crit chance, plus 5% in Holy Spec, plus there being TONS of crit on LK gear, I'm seeing with Renewed Hope being always up (Not hard to just drop a PW:S on your target every 15(13 with 4 set PvP) secs), that's a base 16% crit chance without gear, so no worries about either talent.

Now Grace is another story >.>. They REALLY need to do something about that talent. Give it the healing part back or something.

[Worshaka]

Discipline
1: Renewed Hope
Increases the critical effect chance of your Flash Heal, Greater Heal and Penance spells by 3%,6% on targets afflicted by the Weakend Soul effect.

Problem with this talent-
Eight out of ten people will not take it. I have to rely on my Weakend Soul effect to get a benefit? No thanks. It also just is not that 'good'.

Suggestions-
S1. It is called Renewed Hope; lets have it do something with renew. When your renew is dispelled, there is a 25%,50% chance of it refreshing instead.
S2. Again, going with the name, Renewed Hope; Your renew has a 5%,10% of double casting every tick.
S3. You have a 5%,10% chance to remove one Physical debuff when hit by melee.

How is this a bad talent? Considering Disc priests are going to be using preventative damage shields the weakend soul debuff is going to be up on your target close to 100% of the time... what other class gets 6% to crit for 2 talent points? And before you say that critting isn't that useful, go read Divine Aegis... the disc tree looks to have a nice synergy and if I decide shadow is no good in WoTLK I would prefer to be a MT healer as Disc.

[Telitzp]

How is this a bad talent? Considering Disc priests are going to be using preventative damage shields the weakend soul debuff is going to be up on your target close to 100% of the time... what other class gets 6% to crit for 2 talent points? And before you say that critting isn't that useful, go read Divine Aegis... the disc tree looks to have a nice synergy and if I decide shadow is no good in WoTLK I would prefer to be a MT healer as Disc.

First off, you have to cast PW: Shield to get that 6% crit. Both Paladin's and Shaman's have talents that do exactly the same thing (Paladin's pay 7 talent points for 11% crit, and we pay 7 talent points for 11% crit, however, we have to do PW: Shield first of course). Shaman's get a 2 point talent that increases all crits by 4% for 2 points and increases their plus healing from earthliving. Not to mention that their "Inner Focus" is much better than ours. In PvE, you are not going to put up a Shield all the time, don't even try to say it. In PvP, of course. However, anyone in their right mind will not get 5% crit to holy heals for PvP (5 points can be used elsewhere), thus that also makes Divine Aegis useless in PvP as well.

And lastly, any Guild that lets you raid as Disc is shooting themselves in the foot. Now.. Divine Aegis + Circle of Healing would be GREAT synergy.

All of you will soon realize that the synergy is not great enough to go Deep Disc and still be effective raid wise. Ask any real guild.

[Telitzp]

Personally I like Divine Aegis how it is now, I can't wait to see it, but I do say that making all my crit heals (Which ATM in PvE gear with deep Disc talents crit around 8.5k) put a 30% shield on the target (2.7k Shield, which is STRONGER than my current PW:Shield) AND heal 30% of what I healed over time is a bit OP, that's like the Ret talent. Just a tad OP honestly. If you think about it this way as well, with Rapture, that 8.5k crit that just cost me 770 mana will be returning about 740ish mana back, which IMHO is plenty powerful enough for me to pick up the talent. Same with Renewed Hope, if I am using GHeal on my target after shielding them, 6% higher crit chance, plus 5% in Holy Spec, plus there being TONS of crit on LK gear, I'm seeing with Renewed Hope being always up (Not hard to just drop a PW:S on your target every 15(13 with 4 set PvP) secs), that's a base 16% crit chance without gear, so no worries about either talent.

Now Grace is another story >.>. They REALLY need to do something about that talent. Give it the healing part back or something.

If this is you: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ther&n=Rushuna

1. I doubt you are criting for 8.5k.
2. Your shields probably absorb 1700
3. I never mentioned anything about Rapture (because it's a bad ass talent and I'm glad its there)
4. PvE - no serious raider will have the points to pick up Divine Aegis, and Renewed Hope the way they are now.
5. PvP - no serious disc priest will want / have the points to pick up Divine Aegis, and Renewed Hope, the way they are now.
6. Lastly, show me a spec PvP / PvE that would be VIABLE.

[Telitzp]

Here, let me help you with a PvP Spec.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000

I've tried looking at a PvE spec. Nothing seems 'great'.

[Annarion]

I will not be playing my holy priest in WotLK. Blizzard has lied about the class/spec constantly and their hypocrisy is sickening.

Their supposed "philosophy" behind affecting the current trees are to give you enough talents in a tree to want to take things, and give you options about what you want to take more, and to not have "mandatory" talents.

Meditation in "mandatory" for every single priest and it isn't even in the right tree.

"Divine Spirit is an incentive to bring a disc priest to a raid so it will never be baseline."

Try Divine Spirit is an incentive to have a disc priest alt logged in to buff the raid and then have the pally/warrior log back on their main for the boss.

Blizzard's design team is so out of touch with every holy priest it's laughable. Take for example these glyphs:

"Glyph of Lightwell: Increases the amount healed by your lightwell by 20%." TOO FUCKING BAD ANY DAMAGE REMOVES THE HOT! WHAT FUCKING POINT IS A HOT OTHER THAN SOMETHING YOU CAN CAST AND FORGET ABOUT? A HOT THAT YOU DON'T EVEN CAST YOURSELF? SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BABYSIT IT. The entire ability should be reworked and replaced with something, I can guaratee you less than 1 in 100 raiding priests have lightwell.

"Glyph of Holy Nova: Your Holy Nova spell heals 40% more but deals 40% less damage." Wow, this is just... wow. The only reason anyone uses Holy Nova is to kill snake traps in pvp. The healing is laughable for the mana cost, and the damage is like what? 600 in my t6 healing gear? What a joke. Holy Nova should be a ghetto CoH for disc priests. Bake in the added healing, lower the mana cost for every rank, do something.

The fact that when I spec disc for pvp, I'm getting more buttons to press, in the form of Divine Spirit, Pain Suppression, Power Infusion, Holy Nova, not to mention the added procs I'm getting from various talents, I actually feel like I have a spec and a class that was designed. 90% of holy priest raiding talents are passive, the 2 procs we do have are so random and infrequent, one of which was based on crit, which up until now we had no way of acquiring enough of to make it reliable, that it made the class extremely boring.

Add in the lack of downranking, which brought a flavour of strategy and timing to the class, and it looks like holy priests will only be around for the "Oh Shit" button of Divine Guardian.

Chain Heal > CoH.

[Telitzp]

I will not be playing my holy priest in WotLK. Blizzard has lied about the class/spec constantly and their hypocrisy is sickening.

Their supposed "philosophy" behind affecting the current trees are to give you enough talents in a tree to want to take things, and give you options about what you want to take more, and to not have "mandatory" talents.

Meditation in "mandatory" for every single priest and it isn't even in the right tree.

"Divine Spirit is an incentive to bring a disc priest to a raid so it will never be baseline."

Try Divine Spirit is an incentive to have a disc priest alt logged in to buff the raid and then have the pally/warrior log back on their main for the boss.

Blizzard's design team is so out of touch with every holy priest it's laughable. Take for example these glyphs:

"Glyph of Lightwell: Increases the amount healed by your lightwell by 20%." TOO FUCKING BAD ANY DAMAGE REMOVES THE HOT! WHAT FUCKING POINT IS A HOT OTHER THAN SOMETHING YOU CAN CAST AND FORGET ABOUT? A HOT THAT YOU DON'T EVEN CAST YOURSELF? SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BABYSIT IT. The entire ability should be reworked and replaced with something, I can guaratee you less than 1 in 100 raiding priests have lightwell.

"Glyph of Holy Nova: Your Holy Nova spell heals 40% more but deals 40% less damage." Wow, this is just... wow. The only reason anyone uses Holy Nova is to kill snake traps in pvp. The healing is laughable for the mana cost, and the damage is like what? 600 in my t6 healing gear? What a joke. Holy Nova should be a ghetto CoH for disc priests. Bake in the added healing, lower the mana cost for every rank, do something.

The fact that when I spec disc for pvp, I'm getting more buttons to press, in the form of Divine Spirit, Pain Suppression, Power Infusion, Holy Nova, not to mention the added procs I'm getting from various talents, I actually feel like I have a spec and a class that was designed. 90% of holy priest raiding talents are passive, the 2 procs we do have are so random and infrequent, one of which was based on crit, which up until now we had no way of acquiring enough of to make it reliable, that it made the class extremely boring.

Add in the lack of downranking, which brought a flavour of strategy and timing to the class, and it looks like holy priests will only be around for the "Oh Shit" button of Divine Guardian.

Chain Heal > CoH.

Amen brother!
CoH is smart now though! lol

[Rushuna]

If this is you: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ther&n=Rushuna

1. I doubt you are criting for 8.5k.
2. Your shields probably absorb 1700
3. I never mentioned anything about Rapture (because it's a bad ass talent and I'm glad its there)
4. PvE - no serious raider will have the points to pick up Divine Aegis, and Renewed Hope the way they are now.
5. PvP - no serious disc priest will want / have the points to pick up Divine Aegis, and Renewed Hope, the way they are now.
6. Lastly, show me a spec PvP / PvE that would be VIABLE.

lol, no, that is not me, Rushuna is my unguilded PvP paladin on KT, nice try though :P. If you'd checked any of my other posts you'd notice I'm a dwarf first and foremost :P

As for the specs with the current talents:
PvE
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVRhzhxtrxoicMxfxx0c

PvP
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bxGhzhgtMesicotf0x

Edit: I raid CoH Holy of course, I WANT to raid Disc, I have more fun with the Disc talents than boring Holy (lolspam CoH XD), but I know what works and what doesn't. Try to be more constructive in your posts and civil instead of trying (and failing might I add) at being personally critical just because I try to defend why I believe the talents aren't that bad. If these talents go live yes I'm probably gonna have to stay Holy for my guild unless they fix Grace, but I like the idea of being a non-H Pally Single target healer. Yes, I use PW:Shield EVERY time the tank has 100 rage due to a burst before I start my heals on the MT. Why? To give a buffer for the OTHER healers to hit theirs, and absorbing half a bosses hit does nothing to a tank's aggro gen. So yes, I do see Renewed Hope and Grace being useful.

[Worshaka]

First off, you have to cast PW: Shield to get that 6% crit.

As blizzard have stated on numerous occasions, they are building the mechanics of Disc priests to involve damage absorption or prevenative damage. Casting PW:S will be in your rotation, so the fact you have to cast it first to get 6% crit isn't a big deal.

If you want to talk about the current raid environment you'll get no argument from me that PW:S (in most circumstances) is a poor choice of spell to use to heal people. However, with talents such as Borrowed Time & Rapture, combined with existing talents of Imp PW:S & Mental Agility, can you please provide me with some data explaining why it's not worth my 1 sec GCD (Borrowed Time) to continually cast PW:S?

[Soulssong]

They changed Lightwell slightly that you seemed to miss Anna

Creates a Holy Lightwell. Members of your raid or party can click the Lightwell to restore 4620 health over 6 sec. Attacks done to you equal to 30% of your total health will cancel the effect. Lightwell lasts for 3 min or 10 charges.
17% of base mana, 40 yd range, 0.5 sec cast, 3 min cooldown

The hot will still tick if you take damage, as long as the hit doesn't hit you for more then 30% of your health.

*edited some poor grammar lol*

[joyu]

Discipline
1: Renewed Hope
Increases the critical effect chance of your Flash Heal, Greater Heal and Penance spells by 3%,6% on targets afflicted by the Weakend Soul effect.

PVP talent, and maybe i will get it for arenas because focus is always affected by weakened soul

2: Grace
Your Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and Penance spells have a 50% chance to bless the target with Grace, reducing damage done to the target by 1%. This effect will stack up to 3 times. Effect lasts 8 sec.

pvp talent, may a buff could help like a 100% chance


3. Divine Aegis
Critical heals create a protective shied on the target, absorbing 10%, 20%, 30% of the amount healed. Lasts 12 sec.

pvp talent,with renewed hope you will have more dmg reduction when the debuff is on


Holy
Healing Prayers & Divine Providence:
I believe these two talents can be merged.
lets merge apples with oranges,1 reduces mana cost and other increases the heal, and they dont affect themselves

Shadow
Silence:
i would prefer other coices of dps talents instead a silence i never use


Since the spirit nerf(dont stack with other spelldmg buffs, and you need more than 1500 spirit to overwrite the others)
all pve priests would choose 20/51/0 so disc is for pvp, where most talents increase survivavility

[Mandible]

Wow joyu - you have no idea what they are trying to make discipline into as a healing tree... (or in general for that matter).

Healing through absorbtion = weakened soul will be up on every cd. So lots of crits. Lots of crits = lots of divine aegis proccing (and most likely also inspiration). That totals lots absorbed damage.

As said before FIX GRACE since you will 100% see a prot pala in raids in wotlk, and other paladins aren't speccing down to blessing of sanc just for that. But really why mention that over and over again - if blizzard are so eager (or our class developers I guess) at screwing us over its really hard at "fighting" it.
Anyone know some mail where you can make a formal complaint about them?

[Worshaka]

Wow joyu - you have no idea what they are trying to make discipline into as a healing tree... (or in general for that matter).

Healing through absorbtion = weakened soul will be up on every cd. So lots of crits. Lots of crits = lots of divine aegis proccing (and most likely also inspiration). That totals lots absorbed damage.

As said before FIX GRACE since you will 100% see a prot pala in raids in wotlk, and other paladins aren't speccing down to blessing of sanc just for that. But really why mention that over and over again - if blizzard are so eager (or our class developers I guess) at screwing us over its really hard at "fighting" it.
Anyone know some mail where you can make a formal complaint about them?

I don't see the problem with grace, on the whole it provides the same benefit as BoSanc, but as you pointed out we don't provide the mechanic to restore mana/rage/runic power. That aside we are able to give the buff to any raid member by healing them, whereas the blessing has to be cast on the target at the expense of another blessing.

Lets do an example of only having 2 paladins in your raid... each tank would have to choose 2 blessings to have. I could see them wanting Kings as a priority, is BoSanc going to be better than BoM? With a disc priest you could choose to give them BoM as the 2nd buff and use Grace for the damage reduction. In addition a raid may not have a prot pally in guild, the idea of the buff/debuff changes was to allow guilds to raid with good players and friends. So if you don't have a prot pally for that buff you might have a disc priest instead. This lessens the need for a guild or raid to have raid makeup dictated to them.

I think you're stuck in the BC environment where you had to have a prot warrior, a feral druid, 2-3 shadow priests... the new environment isn't going to have class make-up dictated. If you hold the opinion that BoSanc > grace then yoru guild can choose to stack the raid in that fashion. Another guild might decide they prefer to free up a blessing slot and use grace for damage prevention.

I'm of the opinion you can't be as black and white on the talent as you currently are. I appreciate you dislike it but you aren't forced to use it, feel free to recruit/utilise a prot pally in your guild.

[Telitzp]

I don't see the problem with grace, on the whole it provides the same benefit as BoSanc, but as you pointed out we don't provide the mechanic to restore mana/rage/runic power. That aside we are able to give the buff to any raid member by healing them, whereas the blessing has to be cast on the target at the expense of another blessing.

Lets do an example of only having 2 paladins in your raid... each tank would have to choose 2 blessings to have. I could see them wanting Kings as a priority, is BoSanc going to be better than BoM? With a disc priest you could choose to give them BoM as the 2nd buff and use Grace for the damage reduction. In addition a raid may not have a prot pally in guild, the idea of the buff/debuff changes was to allow guilds to raid with good players and friends. So if you don't have a prot pally for that buff you might have a disc priest instead. This lessens the need for a guild or raid to have raid makeup dictated to them.

I think you're stuck in the BC environment where you had to have a prot warrior, a feral druid, 2-3 shadow priests... the new environment isn't going to have class make-up dictated. If you hold the opinion that BoSanc > grace then yoru guild can choose to stack the raid in that fashion. Another guild might decide they prefer to free up a blessing slot and use grace for damage prevention.

I'm of the opinion you can't be as black and white on the talent as you currently are. I appreciate you dislike it but you aren't forced to use it, feel free to recruit/utilise a prot pally in your guild.

Here we go again...

- There will always be a Prot Paladin in your raid (Always). If the tanks were smart, they would choose BoSanc and then get a battle shout. (Duh!)... So, even if there is just ONE Paladin (whom is Prot, all tanks will want BoSanc); Example: More Rage = More Damage = More Threat
- No real raiding guild is going to bring a Disc Priest. Look below for the two spec's of priest;
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000
- Every guild with a mind, again, will bring a Prot Paladin. Why do you dislike them so? They are one of the best tanks ever. (Not to mention that your Druid tank can go cat and DPS when not needed)


---Mandible
Again, I don't see any guild in their right mind bringing a Discipline priest to a raid. It makes zero sense.

[derevka]

Discipline
1: Renewed Hope
Increases the critical effect chance of your Flash Heal, Greater Heal and Penance spells by 3%,6% on targets afflicted by the Weakend Soul effect.

Problem with this talent-
Eight out of ten people will not take it. I have to rely on my Weakend Soul effect to get a benefit? No thanks. It also just is not that 'good'.

Actually, its one of the few spells that provides throughput in the Disc tree. I've healed a number of dungeons as Disc on beta, as well as a 10 man Naxx as Disc. Shields are great, and to create an aegis, you need to crit... 6% crit is huge. This is a much better talent than I think you are giving credit for. Since you admit you aren't in beta... don't knock Disc/critting until youve seen it.

2: Grace
Your Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and Penance spells have a 50% chance to bless the target with Grace, reducing damage done to the target by 1%. This effect will stack up to 3 times. Effect lasts 8 sec.

Problem with this talent-
Everyone knows that grace was nerfed into the ground. Again, I believe eight out of ten people will not pick up this talent. It would be nice to see this getting revamped or changed into a whole new talent.

Suggestions-
S1. Going with the name 'Grace', we could do something like the following: Your Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and Penance spells have a 7%,15% chance to bless the target with Grace, removing all movement impairing effects for the next 3 seconds.
S2. Again, going with the name, as in someone should be Graced by your heals: Your Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and Penance spells have a 5%, 10% chance to bless the target with Grace, granting them either X amount of rage, mana, energy.

Yeah, Grace is moer of a footnote of a talent now... especially with the Pally judgement being superior. I think your second suggestion is much better, and provides a nice offset to the potential "rage issues" with shielding.

3. Divine Aegis
Critical heals create a protective shied on the target, absorbing 10%, 20%, 30% of the amount healed. Lasts 12 sec.

Problem with this talent-
For me personally, I do not like the talent. I have heard that some people like it, so it's going to be an iffy talent to get or not get. However, I think it could really use a make over. We all know that priests are not a critical aura class (of course with buffs being Raid wide) that can be changed. I understand your reasoning for making it attractive to raid's, but it still is not perfect for PvE or PvP. It can still use some revamping.

Trust me on this one... coupled with Rapture and Borrowed time... a must have for a Disc/Tank healer.

[Telitzp]

Actually, its one of the few spells that provides throughput in the Disc tree. I've healed a number of dungeons as Disc on beta, as well as a 10 man Naxx as Disc. Shields are great, and to create an aegis, you need to crit... 6% crit is huge. This is a much better talent than I think you are giving credit for. Since you admit you aren't in beta... don't knock Disc/critting until youve seen it.

Yeah, Grace is moer of a footnote of a talent now... especially with the Pally judgement being superior. I think your second suggestion is much better, and provides a nice offset to the potential "rage issues" with shielding.

Trust me on this one... coupled with Rapture and Borrowed time... a must have for a Disc/Tank healer.

Why be Disc when you can be Holy, and is 100% better?

[derevka]

Why be Disc when you can be Holy, and is 100% better?

Better? No
Different style? For sure