[Discussion] - 8905 Paladin Changes

[Montoya]

Extracted from - http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/81995...notes0801.html

Attack Power and Spell Power scaling on all Seals and Judgements other than Command and Blood has been reduced.

What are the numbers on these? Anybody know? Does this mean that Corruption/Vengeance isn't king?

Blessing of Sanctuary reduced to 1 rank, now reduces all damage taken by 3% and generates rage, mana or runic power when a parry/dodge/block occurs.

Mana fix to Tanks? Could this be an answer to Ret? Would it be worth it?

Hammer of Wrath is now considered a Retribution spell, moved from Holy, mana cost reduced,now instant cast, global cooldown increased to 1.5, missile speed increased, now usable on targets below 35% healthnow scales with attack power and spell power..

Scaling with AP and SP? Nice! What's the data? And instant cast? Well, we already knew that... it rocks!

Righteous Defense no longer costs mana and the global cooldown has been removedcooldown reduced to 10 sec.

The taunt got better? Go tanks!

So... as the topic suggests! Discuss!!!

[Adamson]

All of this has been this way on Beta for some time now. It's only just now they updated the patch notes. This isn't "news" per say.

[Montoya]

Indeed.
But not all of us have access to the Beta, or it's forums.
It might not be news to you, but it might to someone else.
I also never said that it was news.
I assembled the data from the official posts to provoke a discussion about the changes.

Thank you for participating in the discussion. Next?

[Seraphk]

I do not know the numbers on the Seals/Judgements, but I'd imagine around a 5% - 10% nerf on them. My Holy Paladin in Beta is killing some DPS classes without trying. I haven't necessarily even noticed a changed in numbers TBH, so it couldn't have been such a huge nerf to the scaling. Though, I'd imagine if I were fully raid buffed I would have noticed a difference. But, Command and Blood/Martyr (at least I hope they included Martyr unless the Tier 1 Holy Talent still buffs it significantly) definitely should be left alone as Ret Paladin DPS in Naxx is still low. This mostly due to the fact that Paladins are still just 2H weapon wielders. Traditional 2H has always scaled poorly compared to Dual Wielding classes.


Blessing of Sanctuary was an awesome buff to ALL tanks reinforced my opinion that Prot Paladins are "tanks for the tanks". When they aren't tanking they're healing their tanks, absorbing damage taken by them, and now they're increasing the amount of power they have for threat whilst reducing damage taken by an additional 3%. The self-only perspective of this though is that they will indeed have fewer mana problems while tanking 5 man instances and the reduced damage makes taking it over Kings more favorable. Shoot, 1 Holy Shield will account for 16% of their total mana worth of blocks. As for Ret, even though Judgements of the Wise was nerfed -- It benefits more people in a raid in its new form, the Ret Paladin will have very few mana problems in 25 man Naxx (but in 10 man Naxx on non-AoE damage bosses the Ret appeared to be OOM after some fights but they were Undead allowing for him to spam Holy Wrath + Exorcism in his rotation which costs quite a bit of mana). That said -- I do not think Ret should consider trying to go deep enough in the Prot tree to get it just for more mana. It was definitely a nice little change to the buff though.


Hammer of Wrath is pretty awesome now. Being able to cast it on the move is fun rather than having to stop. All-in-all, all these changes to Seals/Judgements, Holy Shock + Instant Cast HL, and instant cast Hammer of Wrath makes my Paladin in Beta feel so much more mobile. And being more mobile is good when you have very poor mobility.


Righteous Defense is like wow... I actually play my Pally as Prot more than any other spec cause the AoE tanking is fun but often get frustrated from the mana problems in 5 mans so I eventually just go Holy & heal. But, I can remember so many times when I ran OOM and already knew people were going to pull aggro, but then not being able to Taunt back to take damage and get healed for mana to possibly grab aggro back was just like a nail in the coffin. Having it no longer cost mana is simply awesome for that reason. However, did it really go to a 10 sec CD? I need to check this on Beta cause I didn't hear anything about that. If it's true... Wow, 5 seconds off is like 1/3 off the CD. That would be really really nice.

[confessor]

my judgment of vengeance used to crit for 7882, now 4760. ticked for 1558 now 1058

[Montoya]

What was your AP/SP? Maybe we can come up with some numbers based on that info.

[meroko]

All of this has been this way on Beta for some time now. It's only just now they updated the patch notes. This isn't "news" per say.

The first he mentioned has not. It was recently nerfed on the last build. I am not ret but I can give my numbers as holy. Prior to this current build my judgments were about 1000 non crit and now they are about 450 so it's a significant decrease. I honestly hope this will be fixed as 450 is really low and leveling against mobs that have about 10k health it's going to be pretty insignificant.

[mcstu]

Can someone check the Hammer of wrath for me please. I was testing it on beta but couldnt get a stable server for long enough- now i'm at work for ages

When i used HoW when fully kitted out in epics it hit for the same amount when i did the same mob naked- even though the tooltip scaled when i put my gear back on.

Does anyone else find this? The amount it hits for is pretty disappointing (when i have my kit back on!)

[Kawasaki.gdm]

This change to hammer of wrath is great, now we dont need to stop and cast that, we can keep moving, and will be part of our dps rotation. but the mana problem still remain, so we have to wait and see what they will do about that.

[malkaviano]

Sry, I'm still FAILING to see how the new Vengeance is FUN.

[Montoya]

This change to hammer of wrath is great, now we dont need to stop and cast that, we can keep moving, and will be part of our dps rotation. but the mana problem still remain, so we have to wait and see what they will do about that.

What a crazy random happenstance, I just came across some information that might seem a bit outlandish but along the lines of your concern.

Stay tuned.

[Omatre]

It helps the holy paladins get in some shots too for that last part of a burn session.

And there's no CD on it? So it could literally be spam cast? Confirmation anyone?

[Montoya]

Hammer of Wrath is still limited to a 6 second Cooldown, so no... it's not spamable. Could be worked into a DPS rotation mind you given that it doesn't interupt swing timers anymore.

[thefleee]

Atleast JotW was fixed, i'm getting 1k mana back from 2kish jugements and still get the replenish effect on top of that

[thefleee]

2.2k ap
663 spellpower

Also I just stuned+crit command jugedment for 3.7k ish and got the same amount 1099

[Pannkakan]

It gives you back 20% of your manapool now. It's better, but not good.

[Kawasaki.gdm]

They will change that, imagine holy pallys with 16k mana pools, mana return will be insane.

That will be moved to something deep in ret tree.

[Jagersmash]

the mana restored is 20% of base mana. so unspecced, naked mana pool is what this goes off of. It is in fact an amazing ability and fixes the mana issues ret pallies have.

Math on the new JotW
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

[Rawberry]

Adding this information to the Paladin - FAQ.

[BubbaJim]

It gives you back 20% of your manapool now. It's better, but not good.

i just dont understand what people like you want.. the "original" joTW was far too over-powered, this is a good change from the nerfed version, and you're still not happy.. :/