Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

[Empac]

This is exactly what we DON'T want. Intellect hogging up our item level is not what you want..trust me. Blessing of sanc, the new Divine Plea, and spiritual attunement will be plenty of mana. And since we will only have about 5k mana anyway, our mana breaks with Lvl 80 water will only be about 5 or 6 seconds anyway(if we even have to stop and drink).

Question: What makes a paladian gear different from a warrior gear?
Answer: Int

Without int we will just be wearing warrior gear. Int is what sets us apart from warriors. Well, that and spell power :P

Int has NEVER been the problem for prot pallies, never.

Everything about the prot pally would then have to be changed. Base mana to spells will have to be lower. I forgot how much max rank holy shield is, but I think its around 300-400 mana cost. That may not seem alot but to a 5k mana user it is. Add that with consercate, SoR/JoR and you wasted roughly 2k of it just for the aggro itself.

[gbrune]

Intellect hogging up our item level is not what you want..trust me. Blessing of sanc, the new Divine Plea, and spiritual attunement will be plenty of mana. And since we will only have about 5k mana anyway, our mana breaks with Lvl 80 water will only be about 5 or 6 seconds anyway(if we even have to stop and drink).

Agree 100%. If they start gimping the other stats to add int, I would rather just pick up the warrior gear isntead. Learning to control mana usage is better than gimping our gear by adding int and lowering stam/str.

[jimmercubed]

This is true, and something I hadn't considered.

I hereby remove my QQ's.

[stupid11]

Seeing as you are a bit clueless on a few points I'll just sum up the mistakes.
1) Arcane dmg buffs? Are you bloody serious? Go read that huge post that was on the main page explaining how raid buffs changed and don't stack anymore, you'll notice there aren't any school specific buffs left except for shaman's stormstrike.

2) Good we got viable cc, took them long enough. It will help a lot finding a group in 5-mans, but it won't help in pvp nor raids. I love this change, but this isn't anywhere near overpowered or a reason to bring a moonkin to a raid.

3) AOE: fine we're a lot better at this than in TBC, too bad mages and locks are still far better. In the end aoe is inferior to single target damage, which close to every boss needs, while aoe is situational.

4) Imp FF gives spell hit, good it actually helps us. Now go look at this talent called misery in the priest's shadowtree. They get extra bonusses in the talent and get to keep the buff up through normal damage, so misery > imp ff.

5) The lower resto tiers: We gain 4% spell damage, 10% int and OOC there.
Too bad our int based talents got nerfed to near uselessnes. Lunar guidance got halved to 12% of int to spell damage and dreamstate will get skipped for intensity thanks to our massive amounts of spirit on gear. So the furor change is hardly noticeable. OOC is less good than a point in intensity, but it's nice. And master shapeshifter probably brings us on the same level more or less if Lunar Guidance wasn't nerfed.

Locks have gotten some more raid utility from pets, not the best perhaps but they did get some.

Just remember every class gets stronger, fixes aren't enough.

ps. There is a full 25 page thread about moonkin issues on the eu forums and the new one is on page 16 now, a lot of people are concerned with reason. Most of the posters have tested end-game raiding (sunwell) and know bloody well moonkin have far more issues than that are so far fixed.

1) Winter's Chill, Imp. Scorch. Those have never applied to arcane damage in the past. It's exactly the point that there aren't any school specific buffs left. That's a buff, because moonkins gained all the buffs that didn't apply to arcane before.

2) Trash still needs to be CC'ed on occasion, even in 25 mans. You sure as hell probably won't be able to fear or seduce many mobs due to space and reapplication problems, so you sheep them. Don't have enough mages? Use a moonkin.

3) Oh? And what makes you think they're "far better?" It's not like any AOE except fire mage AOE and moonkin AOE got buffed in Wrath. AOE is a large part of many raids, and not just boss fights. For instance Kael, a very important fight to have good AOE on for a very long time in TBC. Not having AOE for more than 10 seconds out of 60 in TBC sucked ASS for moonkins.

4) Ok so? Now apply the same reasoning to E&M, and you become the primary +% magic damage debuff applier. You even get the talented version, 13%, for free. And what if you aren't DPSing the same target as the shadowpriest? Or what if you don't bring a shadowpriest (certainly possible in a 10 man, especially with Ret Pallies and Surv Hunters in the mix)? Bottom line is it gives you 3% spell hit, it used to give nothing.

5) Please. In TBC about 500 int was fairly average. Taking a look at Naxx10 gear, not to mention new buff ranks, you should be pushing 800 int before Furor easily. That's almost 100 damage. Not great, or maybe not even good, but not NOTHING. And Blizzard hasn't done their numbers pass. You never know, maybe it will get buffed back to 18 or 21%. And 4% damage and OOC is a lot better than the fat NOTHING it was before.

(Edit: Bit more about int. Consider the spell crit increase it will give, and the straight mana since you're so concerned about that. Int also lowers your Spirit to mana regen coefficient, so you will gain more from Intensity because of Furor.)

Imp. Moonkin aura more than makes up for the other changes. And Omen is 2 spells a minute for one point, if you're using Moonfire and Starfire at 70, that's ~600-800 mana, about 50 mp5 for 1 point. (Which was what we were getting from Dreamstate in BC.)

You can even pick up Imp. MotW now. And seeing as the new rank of MotW is 37 all stats (not the shitty ass 14 it was TBC), that's ~52 all stats, a decent increase for the first 2 points in a tree.

So stop QQing, Moonkins are fine.


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And no, locks didn't really gain all that much in terms of pet buffs. Imp's used to give stamina, now it gives HP and doesn't stack with commanding. And if you consider most locks will be Destro and using an Imp in Wrath, that means we lost utility. Sure, Aff locks get something, but it's worse than Arcane Int and Divine Spirit, and doesn't stack (it's one of the few buffs that Blizz has confirmed isn't intended to be as good as other buffs that it doesn't stack with). Demo got a nice buff, but that's Demo only.

i wouldnt expect anything in that regard, since they nerfed shaman thunderstorm already

No they didn't, they only nerfed the vertical distance. The horizontal distance will still be 20 yards.